2021 Ontario Moose draw system

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janesy
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2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by janesy » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:11 am

from ministry email just now. I like this system so much better! And point are retroactive.


Moose Hunters with moose
Ontario's moose tag allocation process is changing in 2021
What is changing?
Moose tags will be distributed to Ontario residents using a points-based process. A moose licence will no longer include a calf tag. Resident hunters will start with one point for each year they applied for the moose draw since the last time they received an adult moose tag.

The fees for moose hunting are becoming fairer. Hunters will pay a fee of $15 to apply for a tag instead of being required to buy a moose licence before applying. Hunters who claim a tag will pay more in those years, but will save money in years they apply, but don’t claim a tag. The cost of a moose licence will be reduced from $50 to $35. A licence will be required to claim a tag or to party hunt with a tag holder.
Checklist
Sign on to your online account at huntandfishontario.com to view your moose draw
history. Your draw history will be used to calculate your point total.
Don’t have an online account? Sign up today.
Learn how to view your draw entries, results and history.
In early 2021 your point total will be available through your online account or by
calling the automated phone line at 1-800-288-1155.
Make sure your Outdoors Card is valid and up to date.
Decide what tag types (Wildlife Management Unit (WMU)/moose type/season) you and other members in your hunting party are interested in applying for and whether you are willing to have your points reset to zero if you are awarded and claim that tag type. Learn more below.
All hunters will apply as individuals. There will be no group applications and no pooling of points among multiple hunters. Hunting in groups (i.e. party hunting) will still be permitted and the party hunting rules remain unchanged.
The new tag allocation process will contain a Primary Allocation stage when most high-demand tags are likely to be awarded,and a Second Chance Allocation stage when remaining tags will be awarded.
Each stage will have a separate application period. You can apply to either or both stages by paying a $15 application fee once.
If you are awarded a tag, you must claim the tag before the relevant tag claim deadline in order to receive it. To claim a tag, you must purchase a $35 moose licence and pay the tag fee ($30 calf tag, $150 cow/calf tag, $200 bull tag). Learn about the benefits of the licensing and fee changes at Ontario.ca/moosereview.
If you apply to either or both stages but aren’t awarded a tag or don’t claim a tag awarded to you based on points, you will gain a point to improve your chances in the future.
Didn’t get a tag or missed the deadlines but still want to hunt? You can party hunt
with another tag holder if you have purchased a moose licence. A reminder that beginning
in 2021 a calf tag will no longer come with the purchase of a moose licence.
You can also consider purchasing a moose hunt from a tourist outfitter.
Stay safe and have fun!
How does it work?
*Dates for the new moose allocation process are currently tentative. Stay up to date on all the latest information by checking Ontario.ca/moose.

Primary Allocation Stage:

On April 1st MNRF publishes tag quotas for the Primary Allocation stage:
Pay $15 application fee and apply for a tag either online at huntandfishontario.com, by phone using the automated phone line
(1-800-288-1155) or apply in person at a participating ServiceOntario or a licence issuer.
Complete your application by the April 30th for the Primary Allocation stage.
Make up to 3 choices of tag type (i.e. WMU/moose type/season combination) in the Primary Allocation stage.
You can apply for a point directly by selecting the non-existent WMU “99Z” as your first choice rather than applying for a tag.
Each tag type will be allocated to the hunters with the most points that applied for it as their first choice. If tags remain available, the applicants with the most points that selected that tag type as their second choice will be awarded tags.
If tags still remain available, this will be repeated for third choice
applicants.
A random draw will be used to break ties when there are more applicants with the same point total than the number of tags that remain available.
The points required to be awarded each tag type and whether tags remain available beyond the first choice is not set in advance but is determined solely by how many hunters choose each tag type relative to the quota and their point totals.
Claim your tag before the deadline on June 7th by buying your moose licence and purchasing your tag.
Your points will reset to zero when you claim a tag awarded in the Primary Allocation stage.

Second Chance Allocation Stage:

On June 15th MNRF publishes information on the number of tags that remain available for the Second Chance Allocation stage (tags that weren’t applied for or went unclaimed in the Primary Allocation stage):
Hunters can apply to the Second Chance Allocation stage (a $15 application fee is only required if you didn’t apply for to the Primary Allocation stage) unless they already claimed a tag in the Primary Allocation stage.
Complete your application by July 7th for the Second Chance Allocation stage.
Make up to 3 choices of tag type and WMU.
You have the option of applying for a point in this stage as well by selecting the non-existent WMU “99Z” (you can only gain one point per year).
Tags are awarded based on points for first choices and by random draw for second and third choices – this means that hunters with zero or few points still have a chance to be awarded tags that remain available.
You can choose to claim your tag after August 1st and before the end of the relevant season by buying your moose licence and paying for your tag.
Your points reset to zero if you claim a tag you were awarded from your first choice in the 2nd Chance Allocation stage. If you choose to claim a tag from your second or third choice you will retain your points and gain a point.
Any resident hunter can purchase a moose licence for $35 to party hunt with a tag holder. Party hunting rules have not changed.
Looking Ahead
Beginning in 2022, the MNRF will publish the minimum point total that was awarded each tag type (i.e.WMU/moose type/season combination) in the previous year. This information will help hunters plan how they wish to apply. While the points required for each tag type are not determined in advance of the allocation and are likely to change somewhat from year to year, information on previous years will give hunters a good idea how many points will be required for each tag type/area and allow them to apply strategically.

Learn more about the improvements being made to moose management in Ontario in 2020 and 2021 at Ontario.ca/moosereview.
Stay up to date on all the latest information by checking Ontario.ca/moose.
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Last edited by janesy on Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2021 Moose draw system

Post by janesy » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:19 am

Only question I have... There are a lot of people who have been applying for decades or more and never drawn anything. If the point system is retroactive, there are already lots of people in line to get tags. Rightfully so.

How long is the "backlog" ? And are they changing the amount of available tags?
Not that it matters in my case, there are plenty before me.
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by mr meat » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:36 am

I heard there going back to 1993 to start with points if you have never got a tag
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by janesy » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:52 am

mr meat wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:36 am
I heard there going back to 1993 to start with points if you have never got a tag
Going back to the last time you drew a tag. 1993 might be a stretch, but not impossible. I guess they would have to draw the line somewhere.
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by ComfyBear » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:00 pm

If you are awarded a tag, you must claim the tag before the relevant tag claim deadline in order to receive it. To claim a tag, you must purchase a $35 moose licence and pay the tag fee ($30 calf tag, $150 cow/calf tag, $200 bull tag).
It's gone from bad to worse to finally ridiculous. I remember to hunt moose up to the mid-seventies, one just had to buy a Moose Licence and it came with a free bear licence. Then a few years later, it was decided that two (2) licences would be needed to tag and harvest a moose. The next step was allowing the harvest of a calf with the purchase of a licence, but adult tags were only awarded either by draw for a single application or guaranteed if there was enough applicants in a group. As years went by no matter how many applicants there were in a group, a tag was not guaranteed in most WMUs. Now for $15 one has the "privilege" of applying, then if successful, to hunt one must buy a licence for $35 dollars and then an additional $30, $150 or $200 depending on the tag. Talk about a money grab.

“In 1980, Ontario’s moose population was estimated at 80,000 animals and is now estimated to be between 105,000 and 110,000.”
Therefore, Ontario’s moose population has increased by 38% over the past 30 years, the number of resident moose licences have stayed roughly the same – or decreased – and yet the number of moose tag allocations has been reduced by 1,000% since 1980. Remember, in 1980 EVERYONE who purchased a moose licence could shoot ANY moose they saw. Now, NO ONE is allowed to shoot anything unless they purchase an application, a licence and a tag.


That is why, after years of not getting a tag I stopped even considering hunting moose.
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by janesy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:31 pm

The point of this thread is to inform people who do moose hunt and want to continue to do so. please do not fill this thread with misinformation and 50-year-old stories about the way things were. Those days are gone.


***Post removed due to incorrect information on my part***
Last edited by janesy on Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by mr meat » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:11 pm

:
Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry (MNRF) publishes moose tag quotas.


April
Hunter pays $15 application fee and applies to the primary allocation stage:

you can make up to three choices for tag type: Wildlife Management Unit (WMU), moose type and season
you can apply for a point directly to build points for the future

First half of May
MNRF runs the primary allocation stage for each tag type:

step 1 –tags awarded based on points to first-choice applicants
step 2 – If tags remain available, tags awarded based on points to second-choice applicants
step 3 – If tags remain available, tags awarded based on points to third-choice applicants

Second half of May and early June
Hunters awarded a tag can choose to claim it before the tag claim deadline:

claim your tag by purchasing a $35 moose hunting licence and the tag:
calf tag $30
cow/calf tag $150
bull tag $200
your points reset to zero if you claim your tag

Mid-June
MNRF publishes the number of tags remaining available.


Second half of June and early July
Hunters can choose to apply to the second chance allocation stage:

you can make up to three choices for tag type: WMU, moose type and season
you can apply for a point directly to build points for the future
if you did not apply to the primary allocation, you must pay a $15 application fee

Remainder of July
MNRF runs the second chance allocation stage for each tag type remaining available:

step 1 - tags awarded based on points to first-choice applicants
step 2 – if tags remain available, tags awarded by random draw to second-choice applicants
step 3 – if tags remain available, tags awarded by random draw to third-choice applicants

From early August
Hunters can choose to claim a tag they were awarded in the second chance allocation stage any time before the end of the season:

claim your tag by purchasing a $35 moose hunting licence and the tag
claiming your first choice of tag will reset your points to zero
claiming your second or third choice of tag will add a point to your total
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by L.C.B.H » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:26 pm

They can "gft" as they have been screwing us for years,and letting the indians shoot anything and catering to non residents while making residents drive 20 hours for a tag or have a gang of 50 just for a tag...the mnr is a complete joke when it comes to the moose herd,draw and bending over and letting the indians away with anything.....they can shove their new way to bend us over up their azz. I will gladly spend my money in quebec,I don't care if all the outfitters and small mom and pop shops in the north go bankrupt anymore,they cater to the yankees anyway.....these clowns couldnt organize a rock fight in a gravel pit.
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by ComfyBear » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:36 pm

Sorry Chris, if you feel that I hijacked your thread.

Being that I'm 30 years your senior, I don't expect you to know that I'm only stating facts and not 50 year old misinformation. The point I was trying to make is that over the years the MNR has greatly increased hunting costs, while having decreased viable hunting opportunities. It's understood that their revenues have to be maintained, while minimizing the impact that successful harvest rates can have on wildlife population. You state that the 2021 rules make it cheaper per group to get out into the field. I disagree. The MNR knows that by charging $15 instead of $50, more hunters will apply. Then, if they do not draw a tag, in order to party hunt, they still must pay an additional $35 for a licence. In the end, they are still spending $50. The result is that a party of five, like in your case, must still outlay $250 just for their licences. Then on top of that, those who draw a tag must spend an additional $30, $150 or $200 for a tag. The way I see it, your group's final cost will be at least $280, i.e. $30 more to obtain just one calf tag, instead of the five (5) your group got this year. I realize that harvesting a calf is more unlikely than harvesting an adult. To make matters worse, by only having one tag instead of five, the harvest possibilities have been reduced by 80%. That to me sounds like things are getting worse, not better or cheaper.


If I'm wrong, please correct me.
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by janesy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:03 pm

ComfyBear wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:36 pm
Sorry Chris, if you feel that I hijacked your thread.

Being that I'm 30 years your senior, I don't expect you to know that I'm only stating facts and not 50 year old misinformation. The point I was trying to make is that over the years the MNR has greatly increased hunting costs, while having decreased viable hunting opportunities. It's understood that their revenues have to be maintained, while minimizing the impact that successful harvest rates can have on wildlife population. You state that the 2021 rules make it cheaper per group to get out into the field. I disagree. The MNR knows that by charging $15 instead of $50, more hunters will apply. Then, if they do not draw a tag, in order to party hunt, they still must pay an additional $35 for a licence. In the end, they are still spending $50. The result is that a party of five, like in your case, must still outlay $250 just for their licences. Then on top of that, those who draw a tag must spend an additional $30, $150 or $200 for a tag. The way I see it, your group's final cost will be at least $280, i.e. $30 more to obtain just one calf tag, instead of the five (5) your group got this year. I realize that harvesting a calf is more unlikely than harvesting an adult. To make matters worse, by only having one tag instead of five, the harvest possibilities have been reduced by 80%. That to me sounds like things are getting worse, not better or cheaper.


If I'm wrong, please correct me.
I am fully prepared to eat my words. You are correct, it's $280. It is indeed more expensive. I misread that a dozen times. But I have to admit I still prefer this system.

However, one component of this which will ease a lot of angry hunters minds. A good number of camps don't even go hunting, and many have folded die to not receiving tags. At least this method greatly reduces the amount of money put forward only to not draw. Because we can agree, that part likely won't change.
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by ComfyBear » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:55 pm

Chris what bothers me is that the MNR is not really interested in making it fairer, or increasing hunting opportunities. They are just trying to increase the amount of money that they collect. In my opinion, if the MNR was interested in making it fairer they could have made applying for a tag free, and kept the $50 price for the licence and calf tag. Instead, by charging $15 for applying, they are hoping to entice those hunters who would not pay $50 for a licence and just a calf tag.
Now sadly, with quotas also set for ALL calf tags, harvest opportunities for calves have also been reduced, unless each hunter is willing to fork out $80 instead of $50.
The only saving grace is that hunters who don't get a tag, can decide to not to buy a licence and save $35. Unfortunately, that means that they can not partake in hunting with their group. That being the case, I foresee the demise of a lot of Moose Camps, which will mean huge losses for all those industries depending on money generated by hunters.

I said it a long time ago, and I'll say it again, the MNR wants hunters' money, while at the same time trying to reduce the number of moose harvested. As sad as it may seem, that's been their objective since they first instituted "two tags for one moose" back in the seventies. Personally I will no longer take part in any of their schemes.
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by Fazan » Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:40 am

"I would far rather spend $$15 then 50"

You will still need to spend $50 if you want to accumulate points. You collect a point only when you apply ($15 out) and not successful, plus $35 for a licence if you want to hunt that year with someone who was successful.
On the top of that you would most likely share a cost of a tag (say $200 for a bull) with a guy that got it. And that's NEW.
Every time government or a bank comes with something that's "better for you" watch out.
Lou is right: it's more economical to sell those tags to our southern neighbours than to us. They pay more. It's actually better for everyone involved (other than resident hunters) if we don't go moose hunting. More tags left to sell at higher price, more business for outfitters...

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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by janesy » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:37 am

Fazan wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:40 am
"I would far rather spend $$15 then 50"

You will still need to spend $50 if you want to accumulate points. You collect a point only when you apply ($15 out) and not successful, plus $35 for a licence if you want to hunt that year with someone who was successful.
On the top of that you would most likely share a cost of a tag (say $200 for a bull) with a guy that got it. And that's NEW.
Every time government or a bank comes with something that's "better for you" watch out.
Lou is right: it's more economical to sell those tags to our southern neighbours than to us. They pay more. It's actually better for everyone involved (other than resident hunters) if we don't go moose hunting. More tags left to sell at higher price, more business for outfitters...
Yes Lubo I previously acknowledged my error in interpreting the cost. I will edit that out now to eliminate misinformation on my part .
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by janesy » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:53 am

Non of this is not aimed at anyone in particular here. :D

We had this exact conversation when the Gov switched to online/mobile sales. And still now, half of the people I hunt with still can't navigate it for lack of willingness to accept change and new technologies.

The point, of this thread was to share formally released information regarding an upcoming change. Unfortunately on my part I muddied the waters, but in doing so I've clarified a discrepancy for myself I didn't know I even had.
Unfortunately whenever this type of thread is started it always goes political, (people inherently show their true feeling towards First Nations oddly enough :roll: ), and turns into a chat about the good old days.
But rest assured, OOD will be flooded with people in 2021 who completely fail to follow the process for never taking the time to learn the changes. So in saying that, I'm going to back out if this thread and hopefully let the information speak for itself.
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Re: 2021 Ontario Moose draw system

Post by L.C.B.H » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:46 pm

Bye....If I really decided to post my true feelings on what has transpired the last 20 years in this province when it comes to our wildlife(moose herd) and how piss poorly our mnr and tag system has been run, and how much they have screwed us residents, I would be banned. I thought I kept it fairly PC when It came to what the mnr has allowed the Indians to do to our herd, all the while turning a blind eye to it. You can try and insult older people or people who have their own brain and a strong opinion. I couldn't care any less about some Liberal in the city trying to kiss the do gooders(Liberal cupcakes) backside and take the outdoorsmen's money while not actually bettering the herd...…….all about taking every penny they can, and letting the Indians away with everything....have a great day....I am Conservative 4 Life...……...
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