What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

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JCB
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What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by JCB »

I'm an old Excalibur Exomax user. Haven't posted in a while. Have had great success with NAP Killzone 100 grain expanding broadheads (NOT the Crossbow Killzone, but the regular bow Killzone). Killed my last three deer with the NAP 100 Killzone, but did not have pass-through on last two deer. So I wondered if any of you have experience with this problem and also wondered if a 125 grain NAP Killzone might give me more penetration?

What say the experts who have experience with this? My Exomax is supposedly around 350 fps. I use Excalibur Firebolt.
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Normous
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by Normous »

A passthrough using large cut mechanicals is often determined by what your hit going thru. A quartering away shot can stop your arrow if it hits the far shoulder. A quartering to shot will stop your penetration as well.
Hitting a couple full on rib bones may do the same.

I doubt by only adding 25 grains will up your KE and momentum to improve the outcome with the above mentioned scenarios.

Using a notable heavier arrow is a better option the way I see it.
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XB I GO
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by XB I GO »

Cut on contact razor blades will make a big difference. I use 100 gr in my compound bow that is slower than crossbow and always get pass through. In the Excalibur I use 150 grain. My favorite is the American Broadhead Company Sonic and Sonic Bolt. The Bolt is 150 grains and all Sonics are razor blades to the tip, replaceable blades and fly to same point as field tips.
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AJ01
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by AJ01 »

Okay...I'll go with Norm on this one! :wink:

I think (my humble opinion) is that heavier arrow/broadhead combos are better at "doing their job" than lightweight fast flyers. I like heavy (110g) brass inserts in the nose! Then add a heavier broadhead to that and your FOC goes way up!

The heavier nose combo (broadhead/brass insert) seems, and I may be wrong, to actually "pull" the arrow thru the animal we are shooting, rather than the the arrow "pushing" the broadhead thru.
The KE produced from such an arrow combo has a high amount of inertia. The inertia causes the projectile to continue on it's path (a straight line) until hitting an immovable or impenetrable object.
Just simple laws of physics. :lol:

Just my 2 cents on things.

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Species8472
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by Species8472 »

I am with Norm and AJ. Back when i used the 405 regularly i was using a fixed blade and bolt combo that tipped the scales at 505 grains. I had an 8 pt buck once broadside at 25 yards. On release the bolt lost one fletching and missed my aim point by 5 or 6 inches and hit square on the shoulder blade just below the spine. That bolt blew through both shoulder blades and passed thru. Anchored the deer like it was shot with a rifle - no front wheels.
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nchunterkw
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by nchunterkw »

Heavy arrows with high FOC (like 25%) have been shown to have better penetration that lighter arrows. There are a lot of factors as to why, research Dr Ed Ashby for some good explanations.

As to the OPs question.....using a large mechanical requires more energy to both open the blades and then force them through the animal. Energy used to open the blades leaves less for penetration. Fixed blades require zero energy to open so more goes to penetration.

Bumping up the BH weight will help, but you may want to consider bumping up the insert weight too, either by replacing them or by adding screw in weights if the inserts will take them, if you want to stay with the Killzones.

Another option is to switch to a fixed head...I love the Ramcats...and here you can also bump up the weight and it will only help things.

Good luck!
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JCB
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by JCB »

My history with Wasp fixed broadheads is disasterous. Well-placed shots, complete pass-thru. Bloodtrail became specks and then stopped. never found deer. NEVER going back to fixed blade broadheads. Not that I don't believe the success of those who have done well with them; I do. But I haven't lost a single deer that I have shot with expandables. G5 was great on deer, but I don't like depending on the little thin metal ring that holds the blades down. I love the NAP Killzone, so if a heavier broadhead means more penetration, I will try the 125's and can always add weight at the front of the bolt. When NAP says 2" cut, they really mean it. The entry hole looks like someone thrust a broad spear or machete into the deer. So even one entry hole is good enough for tracking to find deer.

I still have 5 unused Wasp if you want them.
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JCB
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by JCB »

I found a site that sells brass washers to add weight to the front of the bolt. So what size do I order to fit the Excalibur Firebolt and the NAP Killzone (regular bow) broadhead? Is 11/32" the right size?
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Normous
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by Normous »

I would not use a washer between your insert and head because it reduces your thread engagement and creates a week point. Brass isn't perfectly cut square either and potentially will introduce BH wobble, plus it deforms under pressure and practice, thus making the situation worse.

I suggest rethinking and put $10 a week into the kitty jar for some Custom arrows build next season.

Think about a 450+ grain total weight , high FOC using a US MADE SWAT X MAG or (XMAG MINI or MOAB) 2" x 1/3/4" (4) blade cut BH which features significantly far more cutting than a NAP whose quality is down after cutting US production jobs to move to China . Lots of complains heard from recent NAP consumers.

I know some good arrow makers.
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JCB
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by JCB »

Thanks, Norm. I will forego the washers and just try the 125 Killzone Trophy Point; that may increase my penetration without having to sacrifice much speed, since I'm already pretty sure that my old Exomax shoots under 350 fps. But I'm sold on the NAP Killzone entry wound, it is killer. Now if I can get an exit wound out of it, it will be overkill.

And you were right about the quartering away shot. The last doe I killed was quartering away. Entry only, no exit and she ran farther than I thought she could (must have missed the heart). About 60-70 yards. But the entry wound was such a slash I had no trouble following the trail. The whole bolt with broadhead came out about 10 yards from where I found her. When the shaft comes out, so does the soul.
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JCB
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by JCB »

Thanks also to AJO1, NChunter and all who responded. I'll get back to you all with my findings on a heavier set-up.
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nchunterkw
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by nchunterkw »

JCB...you are right to stay with what you like and have confidence in. So hang with the Killzone. You know if you want to switch one day that one question on here will give you LOTS of opinions. HAHA

One other thing that effects penetration is stiffness of the arrow shaft. I see you said you are shooting the Firebolts. Those are not the stiffest. A suggestion would be to look into Black Eagle Zombie Slayer arrows. THey are about as stiff as they come. Other stiff shafts are Gold Tip Nitro Pro. They are heavier than Black Eagles but I find them to be not as straight. If I were to suggest a setup to you it would be:

125gr Killzone BH, 110gr brass insert, 20" Black Eagle Zombie SLayer (182gr), Lumenok (28gr), 2" Blazer Vanes (6gr). Total weight will be around 451gr.
Keith
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Normous
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by Normous »

:thumbup:
nchunterkw wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:48 am
JCB...you are right to stay with what you like and have confidence in. So hang with the Killzone. You know if you want to switch one day that one question on here will give you LOTS of opinions. HAHA

One other thing that effects penetration is stiffness of the arrow shaft. I see you said you are shooting the Firebolts. Those are not the stiffest. A suggestion would be to look into Black Eagle Zombie Slayer arrows. THey are about as stiff as they come. Other stiff shafts are Gold Tip Nitro Pro. They are heavier than Black Eagles but I find them to be not as straight. If I were to suggest a setup to you it would be:

125gr Killzone BH, 110gr brass insert, 20" Black Eagle Zombie SLayer (182gr), Lumenok (28gr), 2" Blazer Vanes (6gr). Total weight will be around 451gr.
A proven standard arrow Recipe above offered by Keith, one of our arrow guru's with much knowledge regarding synergistic component arrow selections from his belt of experience. :thumbup:
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by Riflemanz »

My last 2 deer taken I used a 20" Black Eagle Executioner arrow, 110gr insert, 100gr 3 blade rocket hammerhead BH, 421grs total and both arrows sailed thru the deer and only God know's where they ended up. Just couldn't find them.
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AJ01
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Re: What weight Broadhead for better penetration?

Post by AJ01 »

I too shoot Black Eagle Executioners!! 110 grains of brass in the nose. 2" Blazer vanes. Lumenoks for tail lights! :wink:
I then add a 100 grain "green" Shwacker 2" cut expandable (the originals made in the USA). The guys are right. Some broad head manufacturers have moved overseas. You have to be careful about the broad head you buy. This applies to Swhacker too.

BUT...stick with the broad head that YOU have confidence in. It's what you trust. And I'm a firm believer in the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"!

I get my arrows built by Dave at Wyvern Creation's....just saying. He's a good guy to deal with IMHO. :thumbup:

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Exit wound with the Swhacker.

Good luck on your "quest".

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