Lead fragments in venison

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janesy
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Re: Lead fragments in venison

Post by janesy »

Only problem I see with Mono's is their size. They are quite long as they need to make up the weight. This really can cut into case volume if you reload. I remember last year, that's why I stuck with Partitions for my 7mm-08 for a moose hunt. Ended up carrying the Whelen and 45-70 anyway. But still.
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AJ01
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Re: Lead fragments in venison

Post by AJ01 »

DuckHunt wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:05 pm
grouse wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:29 pm
hunter with MS wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:46 pm
Lead is not passed through the body it stays. The ammo shortage is because all of the factories shut down last year for covid they have not been able to catch up.
I don't think so. I did a quick google search and everything I could find said the shortage is caused by a huge increase in demand inspired by civil unrest and the election. The only reference I saw about ammo factories was that they a running at full capacity.
I think it was a little bit of both. Remington arms went bankrupt (How could that happen with this demand?) and that affected production at their facilities. They make a lot of primers. Their ammo factories were purchased by another company and they have resumed production.

Now if we can just stop the folks that are willing to sell a kidney for a brick of 22LR, we'll all be better off. :lol: I've seen people pay $0.20 per round for 22LR, plus shipping. I'll fletch some more arrows before I pay that much for ammo.
Okay...What closed the doors at Remington had NOTHING to due with 'supply and demand" of any of their products. It was a by-product of the OUTRAGEOUS lawsuit filed in response to the Sandy Hook School shooting.
Once more time we see liberal lawyers and judges attack a company over the actions of an individual. And NOT attack the poor misunderstood perpetrator of such a crime....
You MUST PUNISH the actor. I guarantee you this much....if you execute the perpetrator of said crime in a public manner, the next one will hesitate before acting out.

PLEASE....DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME...I feel for those who lost children. BUT...they were NOT the first, NOR will they be the LAST to feel this heartache. I personally have stood over the bodies of FAR TOO many murdered children. Nothing will ever bring that child back. There is NO AMOUNT OF MONEY that can replace the child you love. If It can, then your child was just a commodity to you. Oh my...how you have cheapened the memory of your child. :( :(

Why don't we sue car manufacturers every time a drunk driver kills someone? :eusa-think:
I guess we should should sue the makers of alcoholic beverages every time we get drunk?
Why not sue fast food chains for making us FAT? :lol:
I guess I can sue the maker of pencils each time I misspell a word?
Can I sue Verizon each time I get a spam phone call?
Can I sue Google or Microsoft if someone hacks my bank account?

Sounds crazy doesn't it? Yet supposedly right thinking people sue gun manufacturers for the actions of a criminal who has usually stolen the gun to start with. We have enough "laws" on the books, (and I should know) to lock up everyone in the USA...twice!! Yet we CANNOT keep criminals off our city streets!!
Chicago, Washington D.C, Baltimore, Atlanta...you pick one, they all have one thing in common. The most restrictive gun control laws in the Nation.
Yet they have the HIGHEST incidents of gun violence.
875 murders in Chicago. for 2020. 78% were Black victims.
I saw a report TODAY (03/09/21) that showed Chicago had already had 338 shooting this year, surpassing that number from last year in the same time period.

Wake up people...punish the evil doer as Batman would say!!

And YES...I know I'm ranting!! :lol:
But when you get to be my age enjoy your rants!! I enjoy mine!! :lol:

Just the thoughts, moans and groanings of an Old East Texas Hillbilly Redneck!
And yes...I know I'm gonna catch flack over some of the things I said....
But I don't care!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Respectfully Grumpy!!
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Hi5
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Re: Lead fragments in venison

Post by Hi5 »

I'm not a science educated person, so my observations are of limited value in this discussion.

However, I can't put aside the fact that smokeless powder and copper jacketed bullets have been around for over 100 years. In that span of time one heck of a lot of game has been killed and eaten. The ability to detect lead may have improved in recent years, but our grandparents didn't just emerge from the stone age either. They didn't seem to have much of this type of trouble. I also note that for centuries wild game was taken (and eaten) after being killed with a pure lead unjacketed projectile.

The recent change, I think, is in bullet velocity. Slow burning powders and high capacity cartridges have brought velocity increases that overwhelm conventional copper jacketed bullets. I don't know if it is lead fragments that contaminate a carcass or whether the energy of a super speed bullet is converting lead into a fluid that is spread around the wound channel. i guess it doesn't matter which it is.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about my 450 Marlin and meat taken with it. It shoots a big gob of lead at speeds which won't be vaporizing or fragmenting lead bullets. Similarly, my 30-06 with 180 grain or heavier bullets lead jacketed bullets is OK with me. A 240 Weatherby with 85 grain lead jacketed bullets? Maybe not, after what I've read here. Good topic, Grouse. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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janesy
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Re: Lead fragments in venison

Post by janesy »

Hi5 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:58 pm
I'm not a science educated person, so my observations are of limited value in this discussion.

However, I can't put aside the fact that smokeless powder and copper jacketed bullets have been around for over 100 years. In that span of time one heck of a lot of game has been killed and eaten. The ability to detect lead may have improved in recent years, but our grandparents didn't just emerge from the stone age either. They didn't seem to have much of this type of trouble. I also note that for centuries wild game was taken (and eaten) after being killed with a pure lead unjacketed projectile.

The recent change, I think, is in bullet velocity. Slow burning powders and high capacity cartridges have brought velocity increases that overwhelm conventional copper jacketed bullets. I don't know if it is lead fragments that contaminate a carcass or whether the energy of a super speed bullet is converting lead into a fluid that is spread around the wound channel. i guess it doesn't matter which it is.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about my 450 Marlin and meat taken with it. It shoots a big gob of lead at speeds which won't be vaporizing or fragmenting lead bullets. Similarly, my 30-06 with 180 grain or heavier bullets lead jacketed bullets is OK with me. A 240 Weatherby with 85 grain lead jacketed bullets? Maybe not, after what I've read here. Good topic, Grouse. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Good points, it certainly help when bullets don't separate.
The issue here, and always is, is that we humanize animal behaviour to fit our agenda. Not specific to any comment, we all do it and we do it well.

Fact is humans and animals deal with lead poisoning very differently. Where a human basically needs to ingest particulate sized pieces of lead so they are absorbed into the body IE, through our lungs. That is why we typically see lead poisoning from paint in infants, where the microscopic lead is injested constantly over a period of time in a tiny body. And in work environments where lead is unknowingly inhaled as a dust.
Lead poisoning is interesting in the fact that we all have lead accumulated in our system, but almost no one gets sick. Some people need a lot, some people need a minute trace amount before neurological damage occurs. Something to consider, we all know someone with a lead pellet, a bullet, or a pencil tips stuck in them. The tissue around that item takes a lifetime to even start to break it down, and they won't ever get sick. Further, if we eat a piece of it, it comes out the other end the next day. Not to suggest this is a good thing, or even cut and dry, likely some of that is staying with you. But not much.

A Bird on the other hand, different story. They either use gravel or extremely harsh chemicals to breakdown and digest their food quickly. Birds of prey are a perfect example, especially scavengers like the Bald Eagle. This is where the problem lies. Their digestive system actively digests and processes the lead, and the timeframe is drastically increased and the amount of poison that we would intake over a lifetime, they can take in one meal. Of course they weigh a fraction of our body weight, and the result is a quick poisoning.

The long and the short of it is simple for humans. If you injest a bullet fragment, you'll be fine. Your teeth nor you stomach acid will break it down fast enough. But as mentioned if you invested meat that had lead dust or vaporized particle on it. Some of that lead is staying with you.

Its easy to see birds getting sick, and assume hunters will too. Its something to consider, but probably not a realistic fear for most people.
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lituani
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Re: Lead fragments in venison

Post by lituani »

grouse wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:26 pm
A recent study in Minnesota found that there was an alarming amount of lead fragments in deer meat donated to feed the hungry in that state. As I'm sure all of you know, lead is toxic.
Started upland hunting in 1993 and occasionally a pellet would be missed while dressing out birds and make its way to dinner table. Usually caught the #6's while chewing, but some wouldn't be discovered. Wife was concerned but showed her the studies where it was a non-concern and passed right thru GI tract without any lead uptake. Lead fragments from big game hunting...same thing.

Haven't worried about this issue in 28 years. Not gonna start now.
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Re: Lead fragments in venison

Post by wheelie »

hunter with MS wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:46 pm
Lead is not passed through the body it stays. The ammo shortage is because all of the factories shut down last year for covid they have not been able to catch up.
I agree. Furnace parts and everything is hard to get. I have furnaces down now that have been waiting on parts for over a month. Suppliers can't even give a guess when they may showup.
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Re: Lead fragments in venison

Post by wheelie »

Double post
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janesy
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Re: Lead fragments in venison

Post by janesy »

wheelie wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:54 am
hunter with MS wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:46 pm
Lead is not passed through the body it stays. The ammo shortage is because all of the factories shut down last year for covid they have not been able to catch up.
I agree. Furnace parts and everything is hard to get. I have furnaces down now that have been waiting on parts for over a month. Suppliers can't even give a guess when they may showup.
Story of my life for the past year. Softwood lumber is closing daily at record setting levels but people won't stop buying. Its nuts.
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Re: Lead fragments in venison

Post by nannyhammer »

Been eating game at least 6-8 times per month for about 50 years. Cast my own pistol bullets and handle/shoot them all the time for probably 20 years. Also make my own sinkers for catfish. Have had my blood checked for lead a couple times and it's always been in the low normal range. You have a better chance being killed by Hillary than you do of getting enough lead to poison your body if you just follow basic precautions.
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