Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Crossbow Hunting

Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude

longbow joe
Posts: 4246
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:55 pm
Location: south eastern pa (bucks county)

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by longbow joe »

I think that even an exo or matrix bow light and balanced would compare to a 64" recurve or longbow ...very sweet to shoot so sweet that you don't mind a little width. Being ultralight a rope cock is mandatory so say 330 fps.
Vixen 2, metal ibex,Phoenix,sapphire,matrix 330 ,matrix 355 ,vortex and baby grand piano y25 relayer.
Trigger tecs,leupold crossbones and nikon bolts.
Zombie slayers and mostly swat broadheads.
xcaliber
Posts: 12821
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: NW Indiana

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by xcaliber »

I think the best one with a chance would be the matrix 355. That is a great model with plenty of power that could use a “Refresh”. Take a pound off and I would need restraining! :lol:
It’s not the way you rock, it’s the way that you roll!
User avatar
Deaf jeff
Posts: 1168
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:58 am
Location: tip of the mitt in lower michigan

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by Deaf jeff »

xcaliber wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:30 pm
I think the best one with a chance would be the matrix 355. That is a great model with plenty of power that could use a “Refresh”. Take a pound off and I would need restraining! :lol:
i would probably have to get the credit card out if this ever came to be :thumbup: just so i had 2 of them :lol:
IN GOD WE TRUST
Jeff
animals are killed, crops are harvested
matrix 355
matrix 330
BE executioners and zombies, w/110 brass
100gr spitfire maxx
Boo strings
excaliber strings
Dagriz knife
User avatar
XB I GO
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:00 am
Location: Texas

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by XB I GO »

If the price went above around $500 the company is really not selling to any new people. They’re trying to sell another crossbow to someone who already has one. It’s already a tough sale to anyone. New shooters and especially younger shooters in my generation want the most performance and features for the best price. They base this off paper information. Speed, weight, looks, add-ons and perceived range. Theyre just not going to buy a “big slow outdated technology” crossbow. That makes an even smaller secondary market for used bows. It’s not like a classic car. It’s like buying a 1991 pickup instead of a 2021. A pre-80’s truck is sometimes worth more than a 90’s-2000’s. There’s a big difference but also a generation that is reliving their past. Doesn’t apply to enough population with a crossbow.
lituani
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:44 pm

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by lituani »

Speed sells, and the market has responded!

Looks what's available today. You can get compound crossbows (all scoped & with cranks) @ 380 FPS for $350 (PSE), 400FPS for $450 (Barnett), 425FPS for $470 (Centerpoint). That's ALOT for a $750 MicroMag 340 to compete with in the $350-$470 range. Again, all scoped & cranked. And besides speed, the competition is virtually always narrower. And typically quieter.

Let's be honest. What are the real reasons to buy a recurve crossbow? Reliability and accuracy.
But the marketplace *assumes* both to be true for any new product, so Excalibur loses its single largest advantage of reliability.
Even if you factor in $150 every 3 years for a string change, a high maintenance compound crossbow keeps its price advantage for 3-6 years.

The other unique offering which Excalibur has is the TakeDown feature. Personally I think it's a terrific marketing feature, but the marketplace doesn't seem to value it.

Let's also not forget that many folks gotta have latest/greatest/fastest, so they upgrade every couple years. What does Excal offer every couple years to excite the marketplace? Ran outta speed, created TakeDown models, then went with dual limbs.

Excalibur is selling a pokey Micro Mag 340 at $750. Folks who "get it" are still buying the Micro Mag 340, but it's a dwindling customer base. Who buys 340FPS for $300-400 more than 380-425FPS?! No "bragging rights" with your testosterone laden hunting buddies.

So, ignore all the above.
How would you position a special run Exo series?
350FPS for less money than Micro 340?
330FPS with better stock, camo'ed out & noise gimmicks for less money than Micro 340?
Pricing limit certainly would be $500.

Creating a special run for nostalgia may please many of us on this forum, but it's not a good business proposition.

So, would I buy? A tricked out Equinox 350FPS with illuminated Tact Zone, thumbhole stock, and good trigger for $500? Yep.

But that's just me. Are there another 3-4000 like me out there? Doubtful.

A Matrix 350LE or 355 would sell better than Exo.
User avatar
janesy
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:20 pm
Location: Beavertown. Ont

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by janesy »

lituani wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:33 pm
Speed sells, and the market has responded!

Looks what's available today. You can get compound crossbows (all scoped & with cranks) @ 380 FPS for $350 (PSE), 400FPS for $450 (Barnett), 425FPS for $470 (Centerpoint). That's ALOT for a $750 MicroMag 340 to compete with in the $350-$470 range. Again, all scoped & cranked. And besides speed, the competition is virtually always narrower. And typically quieter.

Let's be honest. What are the real reasons to buy a recurve crossbow? Reliability and accuracy.
But the marketplace *assumes* both to be true for any new product, so Excalibur loses its single largest advantage of reliability.
Even if you factor in $150 every 3 years for a string change, a high maintenance compound crossbow keeps its price advantage for 3-6 years.

The other unique offering which Excalibur has is the TakeDown feature. Personally I think it's a terrific marketing feature, but the marketplace doesn't seem to value it.

Let's also not forget that many folks gotta have latest/greatest/fastest, so they upgrade every couple years. What does Excal offer every couple years to excite the marketplace? Ran outta speed, created TakeDown models, then went with dual limbs.

Excalibur is selling a pokey Micro Mag 340 at $750. Folks who "get it" are still buying the Micro Mag 340, but it's a dwindling customer base. Who buys 340FPS for $300-400 more than 380-425FPS?! No "bragging rights" with your testosterone laden hunting buddies.

So, ignore all the above.
How would you position a special run Exo series?
350FPS for less money than Micro 340?
330FPS with better stock, camo'ed out & noise gimmicks for less money than Micro 340?
Pricing limit certainly would be $500.

Creating a special run for nostalgia may please many of us on this forum, but it's not a good business proposition.

So, would I buy? A tricked out Equinox 350FPS with illuminated Tact Zone, thumbhole stock, and good trigger for $500? Yep.

But that's just me. Are there another 3-4000 like me out there? Doubtful.

A Matrix 350LE or 355 would sell better than Exo.
That's was part of my point. The wide limber uses twice as much fiberglass for its limbs and twice as much aluminum for its mainframe, twice as much string material for its string. All other components being equal, why would you suggest it would cost less than a current micro?
Blackout BD-Axe "Hatchet340"
Suppressor 400TD
Assassin 400Extreme
xcaliber
Posts: 12821
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: NW Indiana

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by xcaliber »

Tooling!
It’s not the way you rock, it’s the way that you roll!
User avatar
Boo
Posts: 14299
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:04 pm
Location: Newtonville, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by Boo »

No, I wouldn’t buy a bow from the past. I have a Vixen, Pheonix, 165 & 175 Exocet and a Y25. I have no desire to shoot them and I don’t. I still like shooting my 315 and 405 on occasion but my go to bow is the 400 Suppressor. I sure hope the utilize the 400 limbs, they are the best limbs they ever made. If the used those limbs for a 350 and 380 ft/sec bow, they just may have a sensible winner of a bow. If you guys ever see those limbs and pay attention, you’ll see what I mean.
Some people just like stepping on rakes
lituani
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:44 pm

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by lituani »

janesy wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:21 pm
That's was part of my point. The wide limber uses twice as much fiberglass for its limbs and twice as much aluminum for its mainframe, twice as much string material for its string. All other components being equal, why would you suggest it would cost less than a current micro?
Your statement about material is true and, on paper, would probably cost more from a raw materials perspective.
But don't confuse cost with price.
I wasn't suggesting it would cost less than a current micro.
My point was the price point *should* be lower.

Cannot imagine anyone would buy a wide limb Exo which is more expensive than Micro 340.


BTW - Was at Cabela's last night and handled the Micro 340 for first time. Wow! Nice & small, lightweight, but most importantly had nice balance to it. Just might need to get one.
User avatar
janesy
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:20 pm
Location: Beavertown. Ont

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by janesy »

lituani wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:14 am
janesy wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:21 pm
That's was part of my point. The wide limber uses twice as much fiberglass for its limbs and twice as much aluminum for its mainframe, twice as much string material for its string. All other components being equal, why would you suggest it would cost less than a current micro?
Your statement about material is true and, on paper, would probably cost more from a raw materials perspective.
But don't confuse cost with price.
I wasn't suggesting it would cost less than a current micro.
My point was the price point *should* be lower.

Cannot imagine anyone would buy a wide limb Exo which is more expensive than Micro 340.


BTW - Was at Cabela's last night and handled the Micro 340 for first time. Wow! Nice & small, lightweight, but most importantly had nice balance to it. Just might need to get one.
I hear ya, but if something cost more to make, and perception in the public is that it should retail for less than market wants to bear(which is exactly why the public is never allowed an opinion aside from their own wallet opening or not) Then that's lose lose for a manufacturer, and that's doesn't make fiscal sense to offer anything at a reduced margin just because it's a special run. But anyways, I believe we are on the same page .

The 340 really is the sweet spot for the micros I do believe. I don't think you could go wrong. My axe340 will be with me for a while I think.
Blackout BD-Axe "Hatchet340"
Suppressor 400TD
Assassin 400Extreme
xcaliber
Posts: 12821
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: NW Indiana

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by xcaliber »

I think a redesign on a proven model with some specific updates like the ACP Trigger, and a weight chop would be a good bow for the right price. I think the Matrix 355 updated would get some attention, and I certainly would consider one. No crazy stuff, keep it simple with rope cocking, and available crank, keep the thumbhole, but make it a lighter stock, and front end, BAM! JMHO! :eusa-popcorn:
It’s not the way you rock, it’s the way that you roll!
longbow joe
Posts: 4246
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:55 pm
Location: south eastern pa (bucks county)

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by longbow joe »

We will never know because "you know who " will never make an ultra light bow anyway to even try it no matter what model or width.
From what l see many people say 50ish have gone to the crossbow for the univedible aging process and maby even a disability and they simply don't want to drag more than is necessary in the woods just like a remington model 7......ohhh that model was a disaster in sales no on bought any of them. lol.
I'm gonna have to make one myself!
Vixen 2, metal ibex,Phoenix,sapphire,matrix 330 ,matrix 355 ,vortex and baby grand piano y25 relayer.
Trigger tecs,leupold crossbones and nikon bolts.
Zombie slayers and mostly swat broadheads.
xcaliber
Posts: 12821
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: NW Indiana

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by xcaliber »

Joe, if I get off my lazy arse and get this garage done, I'm going to put a small shop together. I have some ideas that would work well, but probably would add too much cost for production. Two though might be cool! 8) 8)
It’s not the way you rock, it’s the way that you roll!
User avatar
janesy
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:20 pm
Location: Beavertown. Ont

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by janesy »

xcaliber wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:40 pm
Joe, if I get off my lazy arse and get this garage done, I'm going to put a small shop together. I have some ideas that would work well, but probably would add too much cost for production. Two though might be cool! 8) 8)
I'm listening.
Blackout BD-Axe "Hatchet340"
Suppressor 400TD
Assassin 400Extreme
xcaliber
Posts: 12821
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: NW Indiana

Re: Special run on discont. bows, would you buy?

Post by xcaliber »

janesy wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:28 pm
xcaliber wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:40 pm
Joe, if I get off my lazy arse and get this garage done, I'm going to put a small shop together. I have some ideas that would work well, but probably would add too much cost for production. Two though might be cool! 8) 8)
I'm listening.
Nothing to report Sir!
My in box is always full, but next year I'm going to try something! :eusa-whistle:
It’s not the way you rock, it’s the way that you roll!
Post Reply