Dr. Ed Ashby

[CT.HNTR]

I just finished listening to one of the latest MeatEater podcast episode 284 "The Archer's Paradox" in which they interviewed Dr Ed Ashby for almost two and a half hours. It's an excellent listen and I learned a lot.


https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-284-the-archers-paradox

[Big45]

I really enjoyed it, just getting into traditional archery this year it was very relevant. For me and my Bulldog 380 and thin skinned game in eastern Ontario I really just throw on a 150gr Broadhead and call it a day. For my longbow it gave me quite a bit to think about.

[CT.HNTR]

Yeah, it was a great interview with many aspects of the conversation being a real eye opener for me.

[nchunterkw]

My buddy sent me that but I haven't had a chance to listen yet.....sounds great!

I've read almost all of his reports though. Makes total sense to me and all of the concepts apply to crossbows but we are shooting WAY faster than his long bow so things are a bit different.

[nchunterkw]

I really enjoyed it, just getting into traditional archery this year it was very relevant. For me and my Bulldog 380 and thin skinned game in eastern Ontario I really just throw on a 150gr Broadhead and call it a day. For my longbow it gave me quite a bit to think about.

I'm getting into Trad as well this year. Dabbled a bit last year but am committed this year. What is your setup?
I have a 49# @28" Timberhawke recurve that I draw to about 27" or 27.5"

Mr arrow is a Black Eagle Vintage, 400 spine cut to 29" with 220gr worth on insert and a 150gr Grizzly single bevel BH on the tip. 5" feathers in LH helical and a regular plastic nock. I think I'm at about 650gr total weight.

Troy (aka Ranch Fairy) is also part of the Ashby Foundation and has a good video on bare shaft tuning for Trad
https://youtu.be/qFx7sZYt7k0

[Big45]

[quote=Big45 post_id=711828 time=<a href="tel:1628707246">1628707246</a> user_id=132539]
I really enjoyed it, just getting into traditional archery this year it was very relevant. For me and my Bulldog 380 and thin skinned game in eastern Ontario I really just throw on a 150gr Broadhead and call it a day. For my longbow it gave me quite a bit to think about.

I'm getting into Trad as well this year. Dabbled a bit last year but am committed this year. What is your setup?
I have a 49# @28" Timberhawke recurve that I draw to about 27" or 27.5"

Mr arrow is a Black Eagle Vintage, 400 spine cut to 29" with 220gr worth on insert and a 150gr Grizzly single bevel BH on the tip. 5" feathers in LH helical and a regular plastic nock. I think I'm at about 650gr total weight.

Troy (aka Ranch Fairy) is also part of the Ashby Foundation and has a good video on bare shaft tuning for Trad
https://youtu.be/qFx7sZYt7k0
[/quote]


I have two bows a 50lb OMP Ozark Hunter and a bear archery Montana longbow in 45lbs. I’ll be using the omp through black bear season and then the Montana for white tails. I’d like to kill something with both of them. For arrows I’m using cedars with 190gr Tusker Concorde broadheads. My arrows should be around 560grs, it’s my first season with a trad bow so I’m trying to not overthink it. I have been shooting every day for the last few months and feel good about it.

[nchunterkw]

[quote=Big45 post_id=711828 time=<a href="tel:1628707246">1628707246</a> user_id=132539]
I really enjoyed it, just getting into traditional archery this year it was very relevant. For me and my Bulldog 380 and thin skinned game in eastern Ontario I really just throw on a 150gr Broadhead and call it a day. For my longbow it gave me quite a bit to think about.

I'm getting into Trad as well this year. Dabbled a bit last year but am committed this year. What is your setup?
I have a 49# @28" Timberhawke recurve that I draw to about 27" or 27.5"

Mr arrow is a Black Eagle Vintage, 400 spine cut to 29" with 220gr worth on insert and a 150gr Grizzly single bevel BH on the tip. 5" feathers in LH helical and a regular plastic nock. I think I'm at about 650gr total weight.

Troy (aka Ranch Fairy) is also part of the Ashby Foundation and has a good video on bare shaft tuning for Trad
https://youtu.be/qFx7sZYt7k0

I have two bows a 50lb OMP Ozark Hunter and a bear archery Montana longbow in 45lbs. I’ll be using the omp through black bear season and then the Montana for white tails. I’d like to kill something with both of them. For arrows I’m using cedars with 190gr Tusker Concorde broadheads. My arrows should be around 560grs, it’s my first season with a trad bow so I’m trying to not overthink it. I have been shooting every day for the last few months and feel good about it.
[/quote]


I've been doing the same. Got the bow in late Jan and have shot it probably 6 days/week on average since then. Sometimes too many arrows or shooting without warming up, then my back lets me know.

Good Luck!!

[XB I GO]

I've read the Ashby report a couple of times and even used it as a school project. But I keep thinking of the reality of things. My family has put a lot of 400 grain arrows from 35# bows through deer and hogs. My Dad shoots traditional and has 3 favorite longbows that are 45# r/d, 50# r/d and 50# D at his draw length. He shoots 560 grain arrows out of all of them (total weight) the inserts are 75 grains the the Zwickey BH's are 160 grain. (He also shoots a deer every year with a wood arrow and stone tip). So, not quite half the weight is up front. My 40# self-bow shoots 450 grain arrows with 100 grain inserts and 150 grain BH's. Most arrows go through deer and hogs. We have sent them through elk and other animals. Where you hit them and the range you shoot to is really a huge factor in penetration and effect. The Ashby report lists a bunch of factors and tries to put them in order of importance. I think you can do fine with checking the box on just some of them if you apply a good dose of common sense. If you get caught up in a lot of technical stuff it can take the fun out of anything. Traditional archery is pretty simple and we like to keep it that way.

nchunterkw - Have you tried 500 spines? It seems your set-up would push the arrow to the opposite side of your shelf with 400's. You do have A LOT of weight up front to offset that, but that might not give you good flight. Did you bare shaft? Hope it works for you!

[nchunterkw]

I've read the Ashby report a couple of times and even used it as a school project. But I keep thinking of the reality of things. My family has put a lot of 400 grain arrows from 35# bows through deer and hogs. My Dad shoots traditional and has 3 favorite longbows that are 45# r/d, 50# r/d and 50# D at his draw length. He shoots 560 grain arrows out of all of them (total weight) the inserts are 75 grains the the Zwickey BH's are 160 grain. (He also shoots a deer every year with a wood arrow and stone tip). So, not quite half the weight is up front. My 40# self-bow shoots 450 grain arrows with 100 grain inserts and 150 grain BH's. Most arrows go through deer and hogs. We have sent them through elk and other animals. Where you hit them and the range you shoot to is really a huge factor in penetration and effect. The Ashby report lists a bunch of factors and tries to put them in order of importance. I think you can do fine with checking the box on just some of them if you apply a good dose of common sense. If you get caught up in a lot of technical stuff it can take the fun out of anything. Traditional archery is pretty simple and we like to keep it that way.

nchunterkw - Have you tried 500 spines? It seems your set-up would push the arrow to the opposite side of your shelf with 400's. You do have A LOT of weight up front to offset that, but that might not give you good flight. Did you bare shaft? Hope it works for you!

I started with 500 spine at 28". Flight was good. Then I changed my setup a bit to add some more weight up front. and learned about bare shafting. Those shafts showed weak spine at 28" with my setup. So I got the 400 spines and bare shafted them and they seem good to go at 29". Flight is good as far as I can tell.
You said it above....where you hit them matters. Heavy arrows should go through even on a "bad" hit....that's my MO. At a whopping 150fps, that deer can move before my arrow gets there so I want a good chance of a pass through even if it hits the shoulder. Pretty much anything will go through on a perfect broadside "ribs only " hit....but I'm not sure you can guarantee that every time. If I changed to a slightly lower weight arrow (like 560grs or so), my speed would maybe increase by maybe 5 fps. Not worth it to me.

I thought a bit more about your comments about "the technical stuff" and "thinking about the reality of things". Don't look at it as getting "caught up in" the technical details about how arrows fly and how they penetrate and what things help that. Look at it as you are understanding the actual reality of how arrows work. They work by the laws of physics, and understanding those things better doesn't hurt anything. Physics 100% defines the reality of our physical world so understanding it only makes you better. Do you HAVE to understand it all to kill deer? Absolutely not. But knowledge is power and that knowledge can be used to make you better.

Dr Ashby has been researching this stuff since the mid to late eighties and has a wealth of first hand, in the field test knowledge that he offers free of charge. It's to my benefit to digest it and apply his lessons learned. Plus I'm 100% a nerd so all of this is FUN to me.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by the 400s pushing my arrow to the opposite side of the shelf?

[nchunterkw]

I just finished listening to one of the latest MeatEater podcast episode 284 "The Archer's Paradox" in which they interviewed Dr Ed Ashby for almost two and a half hours. It's an excellent listen and I learned a lot.


https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-284-the-archers-paradox

Finally finished it. Such a good podcast. Very informative. Better than the reports as you get to hear him describe everything.

[CT.HNTR]

Made me realize while speed is sexy it's weight that really counts.

[nchunterkw]

Made me realize while speed is sexy it's weight that really counts.

Absolutely. I think as crossbow guys we tend to fluff that off a bit as we have some speed to burn so to speak that really does up our energy compared to a stick bow. So there is a little give and take there. And the shorter much stiffer arrows help with penetration.....but as he said over and over....nothing (speed or FOC or BH type, nothing) determined an arrows ability to breach heavy bone except the weight.

[nchunter]

What’s frustrating is the archery industry has settled on 100-grain broadheads as the norm. Anything 150 grains and over is sparse. Consequently, one ends up putting in heavy inserts. I’d much rather put that weight into a better broadhead! Ferrule made of steel instead of weenie aluminum, thicker blades, etc.