What Is The Downside To Shooting A Heavy Arrow (600gr+) At Deer?

[xcaliber]

This is a great conversation and an analogy given here some years back said it would be like a Prius going 40 mph hitting a brick wall VS. a semi truck going 30 mph hitting the same wall. Remember the theory of action & reaction. The heavier load requires more to stop it! All of the physics taken out, I still think 450 grains is the sweet spot, give or take. This is for the common hunter on a budget that buys heavy carbon, puts in the heaviest easily obtainable insert, 110 grains, and uses 125 grain heads, or heavier. You're going to build very good arrows for deer hunting, and perhaps black bear. The large game animals, and dangerous game, you want to hit them with that truck!

Can a Prius engine propel a semi truck to 30 mph? We're talking about shooting arrows of different weights out of the same bow. If you increase weight of the arrow by the same difference as the weight of the two vehicles you would have an awfully slow arrow. In this case were applying the same amount of energy to two objects that are the exact same size but of different weights. The question, as I see it, is can additional speed compensate for less mass or can additional mass make up for less speed. I don't know the answer, but I suspect it depends on variables

What you are describing is Momentum. Momentum (P) is mass times velocity or P = mv. In theory 2 arrows could have the same momentum but one be derived more from the mass and one be derived more from the velocity. (so light and fast versus slow and heavy). When an arrow hits something, there are resistance forces that act on it to slow it down. These resistance forces vary with the SQUARE of the velocity. So when you increase the speed say 2X, the resistance forces go up by 4 times....and as an arrow penetrates it is continually shedding velocity so the available momentum at any given point is getting less and less...BUT.....the arrows weight is not changing as it penetrates, so the heavier arrow has higher momentum all the way through. There is more to it, but from this you can see that the arrow that derives it's momentum primarily from the mass will encounter much lower resistance forces, and retain more momentum and thus penetrate further before the resistance forces stop it.

Sorry Dan!! You can't ever take the physics out of it.

Ever watch a TV Deer Hunting show? Lots of those guys are shooting roughly 425gr arrows that are going 300fps. How many do you see stuck in the deer while it runs away?

Just remember Keith, God made machinists so engineers could have heroes too!

[nchunterkw]

Just remember Keith, God made machinists so engineers could have heroes too!

Who do you think made the machines the machinists run?

Here...you might like this...a Supplemental Ashby Report. Has pictures n stuff.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5d0443b188b6c900011e0ccc/t/5f62266687a3453c5e0de115/1600267899322/Barnette_Arrow+FLight+101.pdf

[xcaliber]

Just remember Keith, God made machinists so engineers could have heroes too!

Who do you think made the machines the machinists run?

Here...you might like this...a Supplemental Ashby Report. Has pictures n stuff.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5d0443b188b6c900011e0ccc/t/5f62266687a3453c5e0de115/1600267899322/Barnette_Arrow+FLight+101.pdf

Machinists made the machines, engineers designed them.

[flightattendant100]

It doesn't make sense to me that modern archery equipment with adjustable sights, scopes and better broadheads would lead to more than doubling the wounded rate.

I could see it for a could reasons. With 100 yard aim points in some of the bows these days, I could certainly see people using modern equipment tossing arrows way farther than practical.

Now within typical archery hunting distances (<40y), I agree that modern gear should cause the wounding rate to decrease.

Texas Parks and Wildlife did a big study shortly after allowing the use of crossbows... seems a lot of unknowing folks thought they could shoot a crossbow like a rifle.
It's still slinging a pointy thing on a stick!!

Being unfamiliar with one's equipment is probably the major cause for the "wounding incidents". Some of the public hunting areas in Texas now require a Hunter's Safety Bow Hunting class. Probably wouldn't hurt everyone and anyone to take one if provided. What ya got to lose?

I got my Texas Hunter's Safety card in 1973. That was a day or two ago.

I got ask for mine one time. The Game warden started laughing when I handed it to him, he looked up at me and said, "I wasn't even born then!" Dang youngsters!!!

AJ, I have my 1967 NRA Hunter Safety card. Got it in Boy Scouts. Instructor said,” Y’all ought to hang onto these…. Some states may start requiring them to get a hunting license.” One of the few times I listened growing up!

[Hillcountry]

I could see it for a could reasons. With 100 yard aim points in some of the bows these days, I could certainly see people using modern equipment tossing arrows way farther than practical.

Now within typical archery hunting distances (<40y), I agree that modern gear should cause the wounding rate to decrease.

Texas Parks and Wildlife did a big study shortly after allowing the use of crossbows... seems a lot of unknowing folks thought they could shoot a crossbow like a rifle.
It's still slinging a pointy thing on a stick!!

Being unfamiliar with one's equipment is probably the major cause for the "wounding incidents". Some of the public hunting areas in Texas now require a Hunter's Safety Bow Hunting class. Probably wouldn't hurt everyone and anyone to take one if provided. What ya got to lose?

I got my Texas Hunter's Safety card in 1973. That was a day or two ago.

I got ask for mine one time. The Game warden started laughing when I handed it to him, he looked up at me and said, "I wasn't even born then!" Dang youngsters!!!

AJ, I have my 1967 NRA Hunter Safety card. Got it in Boy Scouts. Instructor said,” Y’all ought to hang onto these…. Some states may start requiring them to get a hunting license.” One of the few times I listened growing up!

Gotcha beat! My little handwritten hunter safety card was earned in 1964! Still have it too!

[AJ01]

I could see it for a could reasons. With 100 yard aim points in some of the bows these days, I could certainly see people using modern equipment tossing arrows way farther than practical.

Now within typical archery hunting distances (<40y), I agree that modern gear should cause the wounding rate to decrease.

Texas Parks and Wildlife did a big study shortly after allowing the use of crossbows... seems a lot of unknowing folks thought they could shoot a crossbow like a rifle.
It's still slinging a pointy thing on a stick!!

Being unfamiliar with one's equipment is probably the major cause for the "wounding incidents". Some of the public hunting areas in Texas now require a Hunter's Safety Bow Hunting class. Probably wouldn't hurt everyone and anyone to take one if provided. What ya got to lose?

I got my Texas Hunter's Safety card in 1973. That was a day or two ago.

I got ask for mine one time. The Game warden started laughing when I handed it to him, he looked up at me and said, "I wasn't even born then!" Dang youngsters!!!

AJ, I have my 1967 NRA Hunter Safety card. Got it in Boy Scouts. Instructor said,” Y’all ought to hang onto these…. Some states may start requiring them to get a hunting license.” One of the few times I listened growing up!

Man, I know that's right!!!

[xcaliber]

Texas Parks and Wildlife did a big study shortly after allowing the use of crossbows... seems a lot of unknowing folks thought they could shoot a crossbow like a rifle.
It's still slinging a pointy thing on a stick!!

Being unfamiliar with one's equipment is probably the major cause for the "wounding incidents". Some of the public hunting areas in Texas now require a Hunter's Safety Bow Hunting class. Probably wouldn't hurt everyone and anyone to take one if provided. What ya got to lose?

I got my Texas Hunter's Safety card in 1973. That was a day or two ago.

I got ask for mine one time. The Game warden started laughing when I handed it to him, he looked up at me and said, "I wasn't even born then!" Dang youngsters!!!

AJ, I have my 1967 NRA Hunter Safety card. Got it in Boy Scouts. Instructor said,” Y’all ought to hang onto these…. Some states may start requiring them to get a hunting license.” One of the few times I listened growing up!

Man, I know that's right!!!

Indiana started requiring them in the late 90's.

[AJ01]

Texas Parks and Wildlife did a big study shortly after allowing the use of crossbows... seems a lot of unknowing folks thought they could shoot a crossbow like a rifle.
It's still slinging a pointy thing on a stick!!

Being unfamiliar with one's equipment is probably the major cause for the "wounding incidents". Some of the public hunting areas in Texas now require a Hunter's Safety Bow Hunting class. Probably wouldn't hurt everyone and anyone to take one if provided. What ya got to lose?

I got my Texas Hunter's Safety card in 1973. That was a day or two ago.

I got ask for mine one time. The Game warden started laughing when I handed it to him, he looked up at me and said, "I wasn't even born then!" Dang youngsters!!!

AJ, I have my 1967 NRA Hunter Safety card. Got it in Boy Scouts. Instructor said,” Y’all ought to hang onto these…. Some states may start requiring them to get a hunting license.” One of the few times I listened growing up!

Gotcha beat! My little handwritten hunter safety card was earned in 1964! Still have it too!

Texas Parks and Wildlife now requires ANYONE born after September 2, 1971 to have his or her valid Hunter Safety card.
In 2019 (last account I have), Texas issued approximately 1.244 MILIION hunting licenses. They also recorded 21 hunting accidents with one of those being fatal.
One is too many in my books.

I was fortunate enough to go to high school in rural America. Our AG Teacher (T.G "Buster" Hemby, RIP!) taught the course on the school grounds, using a school classroom. We even brought our .22's to school and shot targets on the football practice field because it had a high red dirt bank cliff that we used for a bullet stop.
Try THAT at a High School in America these days!!! Everybody would go to jail. Talk about how sad things have become!!

I'm afraid progress isn't always better!!!

[nchunterkw]

Just remember Keith, God made machinists so engineers could have heroes too!

Who do you think made the machines the machinists run?

Here...you might like this...a Supplemental Ashby Report. Has pictures n stuff.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5d0443b188b6c900011e0ccc/t/5f62266687a3453c5e0de115/1600267899322/Barnette_Arrow+FLight+101.pdf

Machinists made the machines, engineers designed them.

Someone needed to tell them what do to.

[Boo]

Who do you think made the machines the machinists run?

Here...you might like this...a Supplemental Ashby Report. Has pictures n stuff.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5d0443b188b6c900011e0ccc/t/5f62266687a3453c5e0de115/1600267899322/Barnette_Arrow+FLight+101.pdf

Machinists made the machines, engineers designed them.

Someone needed to tell them what do to.

Engineers giggle and drink beer when they design and machinist and mechanics roll their eyes and scream 3 letter acronyms starting with a W, ending with an F with a T in the middle.

[nchunterkw]

ENGINEERS:
Solving problems you didn't know you had in ways you can't understand.

[xcaliber]

ENGINEERS:
Solving problems you didn't know you had in ways you can't understand.

Engineers: creating problems where none exists.
I did tooling and design work for several years at my place of work. Not too much fun really.

[janesy]

In my industry...

Draftsman/BCIN = Life-long square house
Architect = round walls and flat roof(ie: Gov building)
Engineer = round walls, flat roof ... made of material that nobody knows exists.

All engine no ears.

Lol, I kid... I should have been an engineer, I just could not do the schooling.

[Boo]

Lol, I kid... I should have been an engineer, I just could not do the schooling.

Hahaha! My daughter was 30 by the time she finished her Engineering! Fuggedaboutit!

[flightattendant100]

In my industry...

Draftsman/BCIN = Life-long square house
Architect = round walls and flat roof(ie: Gov building)
Engineer = round walls, flat roof ... made of material that nobody knows exists.

All engine no ears.

Lol, I kid... I should have been an engineer, I just could not do the schooling.

Man, I have never heard a carpenter dog cuss an architect, said no one I ever heard!