Is a shoulder/scapula shot a concern for a modern crossbow hunter?

[Normous]

I have suggested this a few times on the forum not to take a quartering to shot with an arrow whether it be a fixed or mechanical head because the risk of not penetrating the vitals increases, especially with a big cut mechanical.

Your best shot is a broadside shot or a quartering away shot. An arrow shot quartering away the arrow may still get stopped on the opposite shoulder but its usually a done deal cutting lung, liver and heart on its way in.

[AJ01]

I have suggested this a few times on the forum not to take a quartering to shot with an arrow whether it be a fixed or mechanical head because the risk of not penetrating the vitals increases, especially with a big cut mechanical.

Your best shot is a broadside shot or a quartering away shot. An arrow shot quartering away the arrow may still get stopped on the opposite shoulder but its usually a done deal cutting lung, liver and heart on its way in.

Mechanicals that measure more than 2.25" expend a whole lot of energy deploying those wide blades! And most of the fixed blades everyone brags about seldom measure more than 1.25" in width. BUT they use NONE of their energy to expand. However, that's a small hole going in and hopefully going out.

The best piece of information I have seen posted on this thread is in the sentence a very wise man wrote..."Your best shot is a broadside or a quartering way shot". It's really super hard to argue with that statement!!

[nchunterkw]

Your best shot is a broadside shot or a quartering away shot. An arrow shot quartering away the arrow may still get stopped on the opposite shoulder but its usually a done deal cutting lung, liver and heart on its way in.

Absolutely! But the OP question is basically "I don't plan to shoot at the shoulder, but I understand sometimes chit happens and I might hit a shoulder, so in that case do I really have to worry about it because my modern crossbow is fast"

I think we are seeing evidence that says...yes....you really do....even with a modern fast crossbow.

Most telling statement was Scott saying he hit the shoulder with a Toxic out of a 380 and the deer just walked away slowly. Next was Matt saying the doe turned and he did not hit where he intended.

SO I'll update my recommendation:
1) 500ish gr arrow
2) Indestructible Broadhead
3) Broadside, halfway up the body, right behind the leg to center punch the lungs.

[longbow joe]

The point l don't hear much is in my case 45 years of hunting l tried so much to avoid the shoulder bones had an opposite habit of shooting the animal a little far back, everybody is different.
In my case the wide cut broadhead fixed or expandable helped in my recovery with simply more blood loss.l had a few shoulder hits that didn't work out but most harder recoveries were due to a further back shot in my case.
No doubt a 350 + feet per second bow will help with pennitration regardless of the broadhead or bolt vs a slower crossbow or vertical bow.
My little vixen is only 250 fps but it's still 70 fps faster than my longbow in my experience with a small expandable and normal bolt it has about the same pennitration as the longbow with a fixed blade and 600+ grain longbow arrow did so l basically feel good even using a slower crossbow.
I once shot thru a big 8 point front chest thru butt with my matrix 330 from the ghosblind with a old original spitfire , that really impressed me.
Still my favorite and strive for shot is lung quarter away shot (back of lungs into the chest very short recovery even if it dosnt exit) second is the awsome double lung both great shots.

[vpsaline]

I just watched a video of death by bunjiee where he shoots 8 point buck on the shoulder with a weak 285 fps axiom crossbow (weak by today's standards) with 100gr xact broadhead. He gets about 10-16 inches of penetration and the bolt sticks out of the shoulder he shot into as the buck runs off on camera. I'm surprised he didn't get more penetration but the axiom is really on the weak end of the spectrum. I dont consider the axiom in the modern crossbow category, but still the buck runs off only 50-60 yards and topples over. He obviously wasn't shooting a 500gr bolt and still got a quick kill on a less then optimal shot.

Turn up the power to 330-350+fps and I think the equation changes. I can't fathom where a modern crossbow has an issue with a poor shoulder shot even with lighter bolts. This axiom video proves the point I think. We're overthinking this whole heavy bolt fad IMO.

[xcaliber]

You could shoot them behind the ear too if it’s something you want to explore. Just saying.

[BrotherRon]

You could shoot them behind the ear too if it’s something you want to explore. Just saying.

Thats kinda funny because last year rifle season I shot a small doe and texted the brother in-law to bring his UTV and a pail of warm water to wash my hands in. When he got there he said ... where in the heck did you shoot it? I don't see any bullet holes..
It was standing in the tall grass and I shot it in one ear and out the other.

[jody5252]

This poor critter took a step backwards as I sent a 100gr projectile his way. As you can see, it hit the shoulder, passed thru and exited the off side nicking the back of the offside shoulder leaving a gaping wound. Buck went maybe 30-35 yards before rolling "head over heels" deader than a stone!

And yes, this is the ENTRANCE wound! This was done by a 2" cut Swhacker mechanical. The "Green Ones". Would a fixed balde been any better? Who knows.
I saw the arrow exit the Buck and kick up about 10 yards beyound him. He turned an took off down the sendero he had emerges from like he was shot out of a cannon. Stevie Wonder could have followed the blood trail.
Does it always work that way? Nope. It don't. I can tell ya it seems to me that if you watch enough hunting shows, you see a whole bunch of deer run off with much more arrow hanging out than in!
What causes this? Too light an arrow? Too small a broadhead? Fixed versus mechanical? Poor shot placement? Not enough FPS? I don't know, I ain't no "rocket scientist" or NASA Engineer, but I have killed a LOT of animals in my lifetime.
And I know I'm fixing to P. O. a lot of folks and I'll get "hate mail" for this, but...HEAVIER is Better!!

Do yourself a favor and go to youtube and watch some of the "Ranch Fairy" videos. Might give you food for thought....

Just saying!
AJ

Well said!

[jody5252]

Holy smokes, crazy pics.

I'm not advocating aiming for the shoulder, I'm advocating for the fact that we're overstressing using heavy bolt setups. I'm thinking that any modern crossbow with 350-380gr bolt should shoot through a shoulder no problem in the event that a poor shot is made.

I 100% disagree. IMO the 2 biggest killers of arrow penetration are
1) a weak a$$ broadhead that gets mangled if it even sniffs any bone, and
2) a "light" arrow (like 350gr)

And when you think about it...they kind of go together many times, as it's hard to build a light arrow (say 350gr as you suggest), when using an "indestructible" broadhead...say something made from 1 solid piece of tool steel. Most of those are 200gr plus themselves. Yes, you can find a 100gr solid piece BH, but it won't take the beating it's 200gr brother will.

As AJ suggested.....check out Ashby's stuff. It's interesting reading for sure.

https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/
https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/12-arrow-penetration-factors


My advice...aim for something around 450 - 500gr and use a solid fixed head like a 2 blade or 3 blade 200gr VPA

Yes. Heavier is way better... Ashby is a good read.

[wheelsquad]

This poor critter took a step backwards as I sent a 100gr projectile his way. As you can see, it hit the shoulder, passed thru and exited the off side nicking the back of the offside shoulder leaving a gaping wound. Buck went maybe 30-35 yards before rolling "head over heels" deader than a stone!

And yes, this is the ENTRANCE wound! This was done by a 2" cut Swhacker mechanical. The "Green Ones". Would a fixed balde been any better? Who knows.
I saw the arrow exit the Buck and kick up about 10 yards beyound him. He turned an took off down the sendero he had emerges from like he was shot out of a cannon. Stevie Wonder could have followed the blood trail.
Does it always work that way? Nope. It don't. I can tell ya it seems to me that if you watch enough hunting shows, you see a whole bunch of deer run off with much more arrow hanging out than in!
What causes this? Too light an arrow? Too small a broadhead? Fixed versus mechanical? Poor shot placement? Not enough FPS? I don't know, I ain't no "rocket scientist" or NASA Engineer, but I have killed a LOT of animals in my lifetime.
And I know I'm fixing to P. O. a lot of folks and I'll get "hate mail" for this, but...HEAVIER is Better!!

Do yourself a favor and go to youtube and watch some of the "Ranch Fairy" videos. Might give you food for thought....

Just saying!
AJ

AJ, did this one actually hit the scapula? Or the humerus joint? Looks to me like it's right at the forward joint of the "vital v"... Which is all rib cage.

But I didn't cut it apart, you did. Which actual bone did it pass through? Trusting your insight. Nice shot, btw!

[AJ01]

Good question Tyler!
And "Thanks" for the comment!

It actually knocked a decent chunk out of the top of the scapula and wrecked the joint area too. The buck was backing up at a rather odd angle and it caused the arrow to veer slighty toward the rear hitting the back edge of the off shoulder! It knocked a .50 cent size chunk out of it. Like I said earlier I wish I had had the insight to take pictures of the exit wound. That 2" cut made one heck of a hole going out.

The exit wound was about 3-4 inches lower on the off-side. I belive that this was due to the deer reacting to the shot.
I haven't seen this in rifle shots, but I have seen it before with bows.

[AJ01]

Tyler, Looking at this drawing you can visualize the POI on the shot. It punched a decent hole in the scapula and then proceeded to exit just to the rear of the blade on the offside, knocking a chunk out of it also.
To me, if the shot had been about an inch lower, it would have been perfect!

The scapula in a deer sit at roughly a 15 degree angle down from the spine. And this moves as the deer moves. The large flat area is not that difficult to punch thru. The actual connection between the humerus and the scapula can be TOUGH! The humerus is dense bone.

But...perhaps this will help someone who's new to bow hunting!
Too bad Deer don't come with a sign that says "shoot here"!!

AJ

[wheelsquad]

Tyler, Looking at this drawing you can visualize the POI on the shot. It punched a decent hole in the scapula and then proceeded to exit just to the rear of the blade on the offside, knocking a chunk out of it also.
To me, if the shot had been about an inch lower, it would have been perfect!

The scapula in a deer sit at roughly a 15 degree angle down from the spine. And this moves as the deer moves. The large flat area is not that difficult to punch thru. The actual connection between the humerus and the scapula can be TOUGH! The humerus is dense bone.

But...perhaps this will help someone who's new to bow hunting!
Too bad Deer don't come with a sign that says "shoot here"!!

AJ

Yep, truth!

[AJ01]

I thought I'd post this for all the NEW hunters that are joining our sport.

Front shoulder and leg of a whitetail deer.



Happy Hunting!

[nchunterkw]

This is quite good.......

https://deerassociation.com/shot-placement/