Lawyer Solomon Friedman critiques the handgun freeze at the meeting of C 21 Public Safety Committee meeting:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=5719049598139192
OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude
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IronNoggin
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Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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IronNoggin
- Posts: 3578
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Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
CSSA Special Report
"Gun smuggling and illegal handgun sales by drug dealers and other criminal organizations will continue unimpeded by these regulations.
“This is one of the strongest actions we've taken on gun violence in a generation,” Trudeau claimed.
No, today is the day the Canadian government ceased compensating Canadians when their private property is forfeited to the Crown.
Effective immediately, your handguns will be confiscated by the Canadian government when you die, with no compensation to your grieving spouse.
Trudeau’s handgun sales freeze is “irrationally connected” to his stated goal: stopping drug dealers and violent gangs from killing innocent people.
His focus is entirely on preventing RCMP-vetted individuals from pursuing their hobby and their sport.
Is this because drug dealers and gang members pass background checks and apply for Possession and Acquisition Licences before buying their illegally smuggled handguns?
Trudeau and his virtue-signalling Liberal government insist that by stopping federally-licensed, RCMP-vetted Canadians from purchasing handguns, he will magically prevent drug dealers and violent gang members from using illegally smuggled handguns to commit their evil.
There is one possible benefit to Trudeau’s announcement.
Canadian taxpayers will save a boatload of money once all the layoffs at the Canadian Firearms Centre take effect.
https://web-extract.constantcontact.com/v1/social_annotation_v2?permalink_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fconta.cc%2F3VM9Syt&image_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmlsvc01-prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2Ff1ccb3fd501%2Fffc9d5e1-7656-44c5-a55d-47b0b0771e07.png&fbclid=IwAR2ByXtERtxlpV-1lmHWdaYMCJEMTXlmBMptbWTARaGUCDWuk6pqvGSY7Qs
"Gun smuggling and illegal handgun sales by drug dealers and other criminal organizations will continue unimpeded by these regulations.
“This is one of the strongest actions we've taken on gun violence in a generation,” Trudeau claimed.
No, today is the day the Canadian government ceased compensating Canadians when their private property is forfeited to the Crown.
Effective immediately, your handguns will be confiscated by the Canadian government when you die, with no compensation to your grieving spouse.
Trudeau’s handgun sales freeze is “irrationally connected” to his stated goal: stopping drug dealers and violent gangs from killing innocent people.
His focus is entirely on preventing RCMP-vetted individuals from pursuing their hobby and their sport.
Is this because drug dealers and gang members pass background checks and apply for Possession and Acquisition Licences before buying their illegally smuggled handguns?
Trudeau and his virtue-signalling Liberal government insist that by stopping federally-licensed, RCMP-vetted Canadians from purchasing handguns, he will magically prevent drug dealers and violent gang members from using illegally smuggled handguns to commit their evil.
There is one possible benefit to Trudeau’s announcement.
Canadian taxpayers will save a boatload of money once all the layoffs at the Canadian Firearms Centre take effect.
https://web-extract.constantcontact.com/v1/social_annotation_v2?permalink_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fconta.cc%2F3VM9Syt&image_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmlsvc01-prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2Ff1ccb3fd501%2Fffc9d5e1-7656-44c5-a55d-47b0b0771e07.png&fbclid=IwAR2ByXtERtxlpV-1lmHWdaYMCJEMTXlmBMptbWTARaGUCDWuk6pqvGSY7Qs
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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IronNoggin
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Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Carnivorous
- Posts: 3748
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Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
A sad day in Canadian history!
A touch of frost has heightened your awareness and your heart steadily beats in anticipation. Your senses are suddenly alert to the movement on the forest floor and you realize that the moment of truth is at hand.
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IronNoggin
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- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:53 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
In Canadian gun laws, dysfunction and confusion is deliberate
Some say our classification system is politicized. And there's some truth to that. But the real answer is worse. The system is ... random.
Canadians often assume our government is doing its best. Not the politicians, sure, but there is a broad assumption that at least the bureaucrats tirelessly working behind the scenes to implement political decisions must have a grasp on the facts and exhibit some consistency in decision-making. In few places is there a larger discrepancy between this perception and the grimmer reality than in how the government classifies firearms.
According to the obtained internal document, firearm advertising, descriptions offered by the manufacturer, and articles by the firearm press, or even perception by the general public, contribute to whether one firearm is considered a variant of another. An advertisement, or a press article, that links a firearm to a prohibited firearm can contribute to the “discovery” of a new variant.
This is nonsense.
Some argue this is a clue that variant classifications by the RCMP are as political and agenda driven as those by cabinet. There is undoubtedly some truth to that, but the complete truth is worse: it is random.
Given the continual failure of the federal government to correct the issue, we might assume the system is working as the government intends. The dysfunction becomes the purpose. The leeway offered to the regulator to achieve the outcomes it wants is paramount; fairness, predictability, and proper administrative procedure be damned.
https://theline.substack.com/p/tim-thurley-in-canadian-gun-laws
Some say our classification system is politicized. And there's some truth to that. But the real answer is worse. The system is ... random.
Canadians often assume our government is doing its best. Not the politicians, sure, but there is a broad assumption that at least the bureaucrats tirelessly working behind the scenes to implement political decisions must have a grasp on the facts and exhibit some consistency in decision-making. In few places is there a larger discrepancy between this perception and the grimmer reality than in how the government classifies firearms.
According to the obtained internal document, firearm advertising, descriptions offered by the manufacturer, and articles by the firearm press, or even perception by the general public, contribute to whether one firearm is considered a variant of another. An advertisement, or a press article, that links a firearm to a prohibited firearm can contribute to the “discovery” of a new variant.
This is nonsense.
Some argue this is a clue that variant classifications by the RCMP are as political and agenda driven as those by cabinet. There is undoubtedly some truth to that, but the complete truth is worse: it is random.
Given the continual failure of the federal government to correct the issue, we might assume the system is working as the government intends. The dysfunction becomes the purpose. The leeway offered to the regulator to achieve the outcomes it wants is paramount; fairness, predictability, and proper administrative procedure be damned.
https://theline.substack.com/p/tim-thurley-in-canadian-gun-laws
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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gerald strine
- Posts: 3425
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- Location: Southern Michigan
Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Canada running surveillance is U.S.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20221024/border-brouhaha
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20221024/border-brouhaha
Hunt eat sleep repeat.
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IronNoggin
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Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Chris Lewis served as Commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police from 2010 until he retired in 2014. He can be seen regularly on CTV and CP24 giving his opinion as a public safety analyst
Will Handgun Bans Prevent Violent Crime in Canada?
My short answer is NO. Not in the slightest.
The Trudeau government recently committed $1 billion to help the provinces and municipalities ban handguns. How on earth they believe that this tremendous chunk of taxpayer money is going to take handguns out of the hands of criminals who would do others harm, is completely mind-boggling to me.
I’ll admit that at one point several years ago, I whimsically supported banning handguns. I was tired of seeing innocent lives taken and reacted in the macro sense, thinking ridding society of handguns that are really only good for shooting “paper (targets) or people” would have an impact. But sober reflection combined with research, analysis, discussions with true law enforcement experts and many friends who are handgun aficionados, told me two things: 1. Banning handguns is an unreasonable expectation. There’s about a million lawfully owned handguns in Canada; and 2. Legal handgun owners are not the threat.
The RCMP are so underfunded that they have little to no resources to chase organized crime or fight smuggling. And gun smuggling requires a tremendous focus. But let’s take a billion dollars and establish provincial and/or municipal laws banning handguns, with limited search and seizure provisions and almost no imprisonment ability. That is not going to cause gang members to run out to find God and seek lawful employment. They aren’t afraid of criminal laws and jail, so the threat of a Provincial Offence Notice from a cop or a ticket from a by-law officer likely won’t result in them cowering in fear or lining up to turn in their guns. Much like the Liberal government promise that legalized marijuana was going to put organized crime out of the marijuana business, it’s laughable.
It’s time to get tougher, not weaker. Let’s put the money into better protecting the public and our men and women in blue, as opposed to placing them at even greater risk.
https://www.cp24.com/news/a-view-from-the-top/oped-will-handgun-bans-prevent-violent-crime-in-canada-1.5715744
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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IronNoggin
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- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:53 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Mendicino Cares More About Drug Dealers than Your Family’s Safety
When political considerations drive government policy, the results are always disastrous for ordinary Canadians.
If Marco Mendicino actually cared about the safety of Canadians, he would plug the revolving door in our justice system that sees violent criminals arrested repeatedly for serious crimes – include violating Firearm Prohibition Orders – only to be released so they can commit more crimes.
This is a serious public safety issue we’ve raised regularly with this government, only to be ignored.
Neither Mendicino nor any of his Liberal predecessors have lifted a finger to stop this madness.
They don’t dare, because this Liberal government depends upon the ongoing violence committed by these criminals to keep uninformed voters scared. As we’ve learned, a terrified population will accept any measure, no matter how absurd, so long as it promises that most beloved of all unicorns, safety.
Mendicino uses the tragic deaths caused by violent criminals, drug dealers and gang members to perpetuate his government’s lie.
“If we take guns away from law-abiding Canadians, criminals will stop shooting up Canadian streets. We promise!”
In a land of Liberal unicorns and fairy dust, maybe, but not here on Planet Earth where more government regulation didn’t prevent 1,791 convicted criminals from violating their existing Firearm Prohibition Orders in 2021.
Nor will it stop the estimated 1,853 convicted criminals who will violate their Firearm Prohibition Orders by the end of this year.
It is to Canada’s eternal shame that our Liberal Prime Minister and successive Ministers of Public Safety are, like a horse with blinders on, focused on the only thing they can see: more votes from uninformed Canadians.
Keeping Canadians safe never enters their minds, beyond their use of the phrase to distort reality to suit their self-serving agenda.
Their endless, deceitful virtue signalling on firearms notwithstanding, confiscating lawfully-possessed firearms from licensed Canadian gun owners will never stop violent criminals, drug dealers and gang members from shooting innocent people in our major cities.
You don’t solve a problem by ignoring it.
You solve a problem by dealing with it, no matter how difficult or how politically unpopular it may be.
It’s called behaving with integrity – an ideal our political class has long forgotten.
The sooner all Canadians wake up to this stark reality, the better off we all will be.
https://web-extract.constantcontact.com/v1/social_annotation_v2?permalink_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fconta.cc%2F3Flg2Qs&image_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmlsvc01-prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2Ff1ccb3fd501%2F574e7501-9ae2-408d-958b-e4e48ceb7dd1.jpg&fbclid=IwAR3knF73jQZGF8JJQiargGnwmmUrWdWufVfQ_OPwnFE-W-wQy8qlR2Yjntc
When political considerations drive government policy, the results are always disastrous for ordinary Canadians.
If Marco Mendicino actually cared about the safety of Canadians, he would plug the revolving door in our justice system that sees violent criminals arrested repeatedly for serious crimes – include violating Firearm Prohibition Orders – only to be released so they can commit more crimes.
This is a serious public safety issue we’ve raised regularly with this government, only to be ignored.
Neither Mendicino nor any of his Liberal predecessors have lifted a finger to stop this madness.
They don’t dare, because this Liberal government depends upon the ongoing violence committed by these criminals to keep uninformed voters scared. As we’ve learned, a terrified population will accept any measure, no matter how absurd, so long as it promises that most beloved of all unicorns, safety.
Mendicino uses the tragic deaths caused by violent criminals, drug dealers and gang members to perpetuate his government’s lie.
“If we take guns away from law-abiding Canadians, criminals will stop shooting up Canadian streets. We promise!”
In a land of Liberal unicorns and fairy dust, maybe, but not here on Planet Earth where more government regulation didn’t prevent 1,791 convicted criminals from violating their existing Firearm Prohibition Orders in 2021.
Nor will it stop the estimated 1,853 convicted criminals who will violate their Firearm Prohibition Orders by the end of this year.
It is to Canada’s eternal shame that our Liberal Prime Minister and successive Ministers of Public Safety are, like a horse with blinders on, focused on the only thing they can see: more votes from uninformed Canadians.
Keeping Canadians safe never enters their minds, beyond their use of the phrase to distort reality to suit their self-serving agenda.
Their endless, deceitful virtue signalling on firearms notwithstanding, confiscating lawfully-possessed firearms from licensed Canadian gun owners will never stop violent criminals, drug dealers and gang members from shooting innocent people in our major cities.
You don’t solve a problem by ignoring it.
You solve a problem by dealing with it, no matter how difficult or how politically unpopular it may be.
It’s called behaving with integrity – an ideal our political class has long forgotten.
The sooner all Canadians wake up to this stark reality, the better off we all will be.
https://web-extract.constantcontact.com/v1/social_annotation_v2?permalink_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fconta.cc%2F3Flg2Qs&image_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmlsvc01-prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2Ff1ccb3fd501%2F574e7501-9ae2-408d-958b-e4e48ceb7dd1.jpg&fbclid=IwAR3knF73jQZGF8JJQiargGnwmmUrWdWufVfQ_OPwnFE-W-wQy8qlR2Yjntc
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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IronNoggin
- Posts: 3578
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Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Canada's handgun ban will not impact violent crime: expert
As of this past Friday, Oct. 21 the federal government has froze the sales, purchase, and transfer of handguns.
Making it illegal to a buy a handgun of any kind, unless “exempted.”
The decision was made in Ottawa to help limit access to firearms, and combat gun violence across the country.
But one crime expert doesn’t believe the government addressed the actual issue of gun-related crimes, and in turn, targeted the wrong group.
“We don’t have law abiding licensed citizens going around shooting people, the criminality that’s out there is using illegal guns – and I don’t feel this was the right step,” said Karen Reid-Sidhu, executive director at the Surrey Crime Prevention Society.
Reid-Sidhu believes stronger enforcement at our borders and ports is what the government needs to focus on.
“The majority of the crime that happens across Canada is caused by illegal weapons coming across our borders,” she added.
“I don’t think this will have any impact whatsoever on the crime that happens in Canada.”
https://ottawa.citynews.ca/local-news/canadas-handgun-ban-will-not-impact-violent-crime-expert-5994038
As of this past Friday, Oct. 21 the federal government has froze the sales, purchase, and transfer of handguns.
Making it illegal to a buy a handgun of any kind, unless “exempted.”
The decision was made in Ottawa to help limit access to firearms, and combat gun violence across the country.
But one crime expert doesn’t believe the government addressed the actual issue of gun-related crimes, and in turn, targeted the wrong group.
“We don’t have law abiding licensed citizens going around shooting people, the criminality that’s out there is using illegal guns – and I don’t feel this was the right step,” said Karen Reid-Sidhu, executive director at the Surrey Crime Prevention Society.
Reid-Sidhu believes stronger enforcement at our borders and ports is what the government needs to focus on.
“The majority of the crime that happens across Canada is caused by illegal weapons coming across our borders,” she added.
“I don’t think this will have any impact whatsoever on the crime that happens in Canada.”
https://ottawa.citynews.ca/local-news/canadas-handgun-ban-will-not-impact-violent-crime-expert-5994038
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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IronNoggin
- Posts: 3578
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:53 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Police chiefs urge Ottawa not to rely on forces to oversee gun buyback program
Canadian police chiefs are urging the federal government not to rely on resource-strapped police forces to carry out a planned gun buyback.
Regina Police Chief Evan Bray, appearing at a House of Commons committee on behalf of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, says the buyback will be an administrative process involving a massive amount of work.
Bray told MPs that police are already overstretched and lack the resources to administer the buyback program.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9231421/canadian-police-chiefs-gun-buyback-program/
Canadian police chiefs are urging the federal government not to rely on resource-strapped police forces to carry out a planned gun buyback.
Regina Police Chief Evan Bray, appearing at a House of Commons committee on behalf of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, says the buyback will be an administrative process involving a massive amount of work.
Bray told MPs that police are already overstretched and lack the resources to administer the buyback program.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9231421/canadian-police-chiefs-gun-buyback-program/
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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IronNoggin
- Posts: 3578
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:53 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Head of RCMP union says Liberal gun ban fails to address crime
More top police experts are doubting the effectiveness of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s ban on handguns.
As first reported by Blacklock’s Reporter, Regina police chief and the president of the National Police Federation (NPF) Brian Sauve told the House of Commons public safety committee that Bill C-21 will not address violent gun crime. The NPF represents RCMP officers.
“Firearms will continue to make their way into Canada,” explained Sauve.
“(The bill will) not address issues of organized crime nor gang violence, illegal weapon smuggling, systemic causes of crime or emerging threats.”
According to Sauve, the law pushed through by the Liberal government without debate doesn’t address the “root problem” of crime.
“Bill C-21 narrowly focuses on the tool or the firearm and not the criminal activity surrounding it,” he said.
“By only addressing the tool you are failing to address the root problem.”
Sauve’s testimony echoes statements made by dozens of law enforcement officials throughout Canada.
As reported by True North earlier this year, Toronto Deputy Police Chief Myron Demkiw also told parliament that a handgun ban would “certainly not” deal with the city’s surging crime problem.
“Our problem in Toronto are handguns from the United States,” said Demkiw in February.
“The issues around investing in what you described is certainly not going to deal with the crime problem we’re facing in Toronto, as it relates to the use of criminal handguns.”
Earlier this month, Conservative MP Shannon Stubbs called the bill a “gun-confiscation” law.
“Under the NDP-Liberals, violent crime has increased in cities like Toronto and Vancouver. They have failed to eliminate the illegal guns used in those crimes, and put end gang activity in communities across Canada,” tweeted Stubbs on Oct. 12.
“The NDP-Liberals want to push through Bill C-21, their gun-confiscation bill, when the Department of Public Safety stated it “has no specific research indicating new gun controls will reduce gun crime.”
https://tnc.news/2022/11/01/rcmp-union-gun-ban-fails/
These wasteful vote pandering gun bans & restrictions are completely about politics. Full Stop.
They have absolutely nothing to do with "public safety", and those imposing them well understand that.
I find it startling just how much the Minister of Public Safety and his office office have come to be at odds with the majority of the police agencies in Canada. It is however refreshing to see that at least they understand the ongoing shell game...
Nog
More top police experts are doubting the effectiveness of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s ban on handguns.
As first reported by Blacklock’s Reporter, Regina police chief and the president of the National Police Federation (NPF) Brian Sauve told the House of Commons public safety committee that Bill C-21 will not address violent gun crime. The NPF represents RCMP officers.
“Firearms will continue to make their way into Canada,” explained Sauve.
“(The bill will) not address issues of organized crime nor gang violence, illegal weapon smuggling, systemic causes of crime or emerging threats.”
According to Sauve, the law pushed through by the Liberal government without debate doesn’t address the “root problem” of crime.
“Bill C-21 narrowly focuses on the tool or the firearm and not the criminal activity surrounding it,” he said.
“By only addressing the tool you are failing to address the root problem.”
Sauve’s testimony echoes statements made by dozens of law enforcement officials throughout Canada.
As reported by True North earlier this year, Toronto Deputy Police Chief Myron Demkiw also told parliament that a handgun ban would “certainly not” deal with the city’s surging crime problem.
“Our problem in Toronto are handguns from the United States,” said Demkiw in February.
“The issues around investing in what you described is certainly not going to deal with the crime problem we’re facing in Toronto, as it relates to the use of criminal handguns.”
Earlier this month, Conservative MP Shannon Stubbs called the bill a “gun-confiscation” law.
“Under the NDP-Liberals, violent crime has increased in cities like Toronto and Vancouver. They have failed to eliminate the illegal guns used in those crimes, and put end gang activity in communities across Canada,” tweeted Stubbs on Oct. 12.
“The NDP-Liberals want to push through Bill C-21, their gun-confiscation bill, when the Department of Public Safety stated it “has no specific research indicating new gun controls will reduce gun crime.”
https://tnc.news/2022/11/01/rcmp-union-gun-ban-fails/
These wasteful vote pandering gun bans & restrictions are completely about politics. Full Stop.
They have absolutely nothing to do with "public safety", and those imposing them well understand that.
I find it startling just how much the Minister of Public Safety and his office office have come to be at odds with the majority of the police agencies in Canada. It is however refreshing to see that at least they understand the ongoing shell game...
Nog
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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IronNoggin
- Posts: 3578
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:53 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Top Cops Testify Trudeau’s Handgun Ban is Misguided and Useless
Bill C-21 and the national handgun freeze recently imposed by the Trudeau government is misguided at best and useless at worst, according to both the government’s own documents and police experts across Canada.
The government’s own published statements tell the tale, as do police subject-matter experts from across Canada.
“The vast majority of owners of handguns and of other firearms in Canada lawfully abide by requirements, and most gun crimes are not committed with legally-owned firearms.”
- Public Safety Canada’s document titled Reducing Violent Crime: A Dialogue on Handguns and Assault Weapons.
“Many participants felt strongly that a ban would target law-abiding owners, rather than illicit firearms, and would not greatly impact crime reduction (particularly gang violence). As a result, many called for enhanced enforcement capacity for law enforcement and border services, as well as harsher punishments for firearms trafficking and gun-related crime.”
- Engagement Summary Report - Reducing Violent Crime: A Dialogue on Handguns and Assault-Style Firearms[ii]
“We continue to maintain that restricting lawful handgun ownership will not meaningfully address the real issue: illegal handguns obtained from the United States that have led to the disturbing current trend in gun violence that is largely related to gangs, street gangs, and more sophisticated organized crime groups.”
- Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police[iii]
“Most of the laws we create are not going to be followed by the people who are committing the crimes with the guns. That's really what it comes down to. A ban is only as good as the people who are willing to follow it. We have a ban on murders in Canada, yet, sadly, we still have homicides happening all the time.”
- Chief Evan Bray, Regina Police Service[iv]
“A handgun ban in Toronto will do nothing to abate gun crime. A city ban would have to be a bylaw, and criminals are totally ignoring criminal law, so a bylaw ticket likely won’t scare them! And the ‘law abiding’ handgun owners are just that, and not a threat.”
- Chris D. Lewis, Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner, Retired[v]
“It would be unmanageable and unfair to the majority of handgun owners who obey the law and always use their guns safely. Let’s effectively deal with the criminals that do NOT obey the current criminal law.”
- Chris D. Lewis, Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner, Retired[vi]
“Bill C-21 narrowly focuses on the tool or the firearm and not the criminal activity surrounding it. By only addressing the tool you are failing to address the root problem.”
- Brian Sauvé, President of the National Police Federation[vii]
“There's no way in my world or any world I know that this would have an impact on somebody who’s going to go out and buy an illegal gun and use it to kill another person or shoot another person.”
- Mike McCormack, President of the Toronto Police Association[viii]
“More regulations on law-abiding citizens is profoundly stupid. It is done by incompetent governments faced with a problem who want to be seen to be doing something but aren’t smart enough to actually figure out what to do.”
- Former police officer Leo Knight[ix]
“They're not domestically sourced. They are internationally sourced. Our problem in Toronto is handguns from the United States. Investing in what you described is certainly not going to deal with the crime problem we’re facing in Toronto as it relates to criminal handguns and the use of criminal handguns.”
- Myron Demkiw, Deputy Chief, Toronto Police Service[x]
“Canada already has a strict licensing regime for firearms purchases and the changes proposed do not address issues of organized crime, nor gang violence, illegal weapons smuggling, systemic causes of crime, or emerging threats such as 3D printed or ghost guns.”
- Brian Sauvé, President of the National Police Federation[xi]
“Restricting lawful handgun ownership will not meaningfully address the real issue which is illegal firearms and illegal handguns obtained from the United States that have led to the disturbing current trend in gun violence that is largely related to gangs, street gangs and more sophisticated organized criminal groups.”
- Chief Evan Bray, Regina Police Service[xii]
“A very strong theme is that most people who are committing crime with guns are criminals who don't have the ability to possess them. It's not law-abiding gun owners who are committing the majority of these crimes.”
- Chief Evan Bray, Regina Police Service[xiii]
“Bill C-5 strikes down some mandatory minimum penalties related to weapons trafficking and firearms offences. This is inconsistent with the expressed intent of the government to reduce firearms violence in Canada.”
- Brian Sauvé, President of the National Police Federation[xiv]
“Tackling criminal activity requires strong measures against criminals who threaten vulnerable communities, especially criminal activity that funds and empowers gangs and organized crime.”
- Brian Sauvé, President of the National Police Federation[xv]
Sources:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cnslttns/hndgn/rdcng-vlnt-crm-en.aspx
[ii] https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/2019-rdcng-vlnt-crm-dlg/index-en.aspx
[iii] https://www.cacp.ca/index.html?asst_id=3119
[iv] https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/SECU/meeting-6/evidence#Int-11503179
[v] https://twitter.com/ChrisLewisLLS/status/1159839338672189440
[vi] https://twitter.com/ChrisLewisLLS/status/1030863009974034432
[vii] https://www.theepochtimes.com/police-chiefs-say-upcoming-gun-control-legislation-doesnt-address-illegal-firearms_4824885.html
[viii] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/handgun-ban-blair-toronto-police-union-1.4807778
[ix] https://tnc.news/2022/06/01/14-top-cops-and-policing-experts-who-doubt-the-effectiveness-of-the-proposed-liberal-gun-ban/
[x] https://openparliament.ca/committees/public-safety/44-1/6/myron-demkiw-6/
[xi] https://www.theepochtimes.com/police-chiefs-say-upcoming-gun-control-legislation-doesnt-address-illegal-firearms_4824885.html
[xii] https://www.oacp.ca/en/news/cacp-releases-statement-on-bill-c-21-firearms.aspx
[xiii] https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/SECU/meeting-6/evidence#Int-11503116
[xiv] https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/11759469#Int-11666836
[xv] ibid
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/IN-THE-NEWS-THIS-WEEK--Top-Cops-Testify-Trudeau-s-Handgun-Ban-is-Misguided-and-Useless.html?soid=1124731702303&aid=Bre1DXqqP3k&fbclid=IwAR3bvkYUK7g2Q_Ttp-E3by1ex6B05Rc7vwuF9NEZrjqBShbstLDugv30pSg
Bill C-21 and the national handgun freeze recently imposed by the Trudeau government is misguided at best and useless at worst, according to both the government’s own documents and police experts across Canada.
The government’s own published statements tell the tale, as do police subject-matter experts from across Canada.
“The vast majority of owners of handguns and of other firearms in Canada lawfully abide by requirements, and most gun crimes are not committed with legally-owned firearms.”
- Public Safety Canada’s document titled Reducing Violent Crime: A Dialogue on Handguns and Assault Weapons.
“Many participants felt strongly that a ban would target law-abiding owners, rather than illicit firearms, and would not greatly impact crime reduction (particularly gang violence). As a result, many called for enhanced enforcement capacity for law enforcement and border services, as well as harsher punishments for firearms trafficking and gun-related crime.”
- Engagement Summary Report - Reducing Violent Crime: A Dialogue on Handguns and Assault-Style Firearms[ii]
“We continue to maintain that restricting lawful handgun ownership will not meaningfully address the real issue: illegal handguns obtained from the United States that have led to the disturbing current trend in gun violence that is largely related to gangs, street gangs, and more sophisticated organized crime groups.”
- Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police[iii]
“Most of the laws we create are not going to be followed by the people who are committing the crimes with the guns. That's really what it comes down to. A ban is only as good as the people who are willing to follow it. We have a ban on murders in Canada, yet, sadly, we still have homicides happening all the time.”
- Chief Evan Bray, Regina Police Service[iv]
“A handgun ban in Toronto will do nothing to abate gun crime. A city ban would have to be a bylaw, and criminals are totally ignoring criminal law, so a bylaw ticket likely won’t scare them! And the ‘law abiding’ handgun owners are just that, and not a threat.”
- Chris D. Lewis, Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner, Retired[v]
“It would be unmanageable and unfair to the majority of handgun owners who obey the law and always use their guns safely. Let’s effectively deal with the criminals that do NOT obey the current criminal law.”
- Chris D. Lewis, Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner, Retired[vi]
“Bill C-21 narrowly focuses on the tool or the firearm and not the criminal activity surrounding it. By only addressing the tool you are failing to address the root problem.”
- Brian Sauvé, President of the National Police Federation[vii]
“There's no way in my world or any world I know that this would have an impact on somebody who’s going to go out and buy an illegal gun and use it to kill another person or shoot another person.”
- Mike McCormack, President of the Toronto Police Association[viii]
“More regulations on law-abiding citizens is profoundly stupid. It is done by incompetent governments faced with a problem who want to be seen to be doing something but aren’t smart enough to actually figure out what to do.”
- Former police officer Leo Knight[ix]
“They're not domestically sourced. They are internationally sourced. Our problem in Toronto is handguns from the United States. Investing in what you described is certainly not going to deal with the crime problem we’re facing in Toronto as it relates to criminal handguns and the use of criminal handguns.”
- Myron Demkiw, Deputy Chief, Toronto Police Service[x]
“Canada already has a strict licensing regime for firearms purchases and the changes proposed do not address issues of organized crime, nor gang violence, illegal weapons smuggling, systemic causes of crime, or emerging threats such as 3D printed or ghost guns.”
- Brian Sauvé, President of the National Police Federation[xi]
“Restricting lawful handgun ownership will not meaningfully address the real issue which is illegal firearms and illegal handguns obtained from the United States that have led to the disturbing current trend in gun violence that is largely related to gangs, street gangs and more sophisticated organized criminal groups.”
- Chief Evan Bray, Regina Police Service[xii]
“A very strong theme is that most people who are committing crime with guns are criminals who don't have the ability to possess them. It's not law-abiding gun owners who are committing the majority of these crimes.”
- Chief Evan Bray, Regina Police Service[xiii]
“Bill C-5 strikes down some mandatory minimum penalties related to weapons trafficking and firearms offences. This is inconsistent with the expressed intent of the government to reduce firearms violence in Canada.”
- Brian Sauvé, President of the National Police Federation[xiv]
“Tackling criminal activity requires strong measures against criminals who threaten vulnerable communities, especially criminal activity that funds and empowers gangs and organized crime.”
- Brian Sauvé, President of the National Police Federation[xv]
Sources:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cnslttns/hndgn/rdcng-vlnt-crm-en.aspx
[ii] https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/2019-rdcng-vlnt-crm-dlg/index-en.aspx
[iii] https://www.cacp.ca/index.html?asst_id=3119
[iv] https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/SECU/meeting-6/evidence#Int-11503179
[v] https://twitter.com/ChrisLewisLLS/status/1159839338672189440
[vi] https://twitter.com/ChrisLewisLLS/status/1030863009974034432
[vii] https://www.theepochtimes.com/police-chiefs-say-upcoming-gun-control-legislation-doesnt-address-illegal-firearms_4824885.html
[viii] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/handgun-ban-blair-toronto-police-union-1.4807778
[ix] https://tnc.news/2022/06/01/14-top-cops-and-policing-experts-who-doubt-the-effectiveness-of-the-proposed-liberal-gun-ban/
[x] https://openparliament.ca/committees/public-safety/44-1/6/myron-demkiw-6/
[xi] https://www.theepochtimes.com/police-chiefs-say-upcoming-gun-control-legislation-doesnt-address-illegal-firearms_4824885.html
[xii] https://www.oacp.ca/en/news/cacp-releases-statement-on-bill-c-21-firearms.aspx
[xiii] https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/SECU/meeting-6/evidence#Int-11503116
[xiv] https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/11759469#Int-11666836
[xv] ibid
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/IN-THE-NEWS-THIS-WEEK--Top-Cops-Testify-Trudeau-s-Handgun-Ban-is-Misguided-and-Useless.html?soid=1124731702303&aid=Bre1DXqqP3k&fbclid=IwAR3bvkYUK7g2Q_Ttp-E3by1ex6B05Rc7vwuF9NEZrjqBShbstLDugv30pSg
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
-
IronNoggin
- Posts: 3578
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:53 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Perhaps liberal senator Sharon Carstairs let the real reason for their actions slip way back in 1996:
"C-68 has little to do with gun control or crime control, but it is the first step necessary to begin the social re-engineering of Canada."
— Quote by Senator Sharon Carstairs (Liberal) 1996 January 26 - 11th Annual Community Legal Education Associations (CLEA) Conference, Winnipeg, Manitoba
http://www.whyfor.com/firearm/quotes.html#CARSTAIRS
"C-68 has little to do with gun control or crime control, but it is the first step necessary to begin the social re-engineering of Canada."
— Quote by Senator Sharon Carstairs (Liberal) 1996 January 26 - 11th Annual Community Legal Education Associations (CLEA) Conference, Winnipeg, Manitoba
http://www.whyfor.com/firearm/quotes.html#CARSTAIRS
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
-
IronNoggin
- Posts: 3578
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:53 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
Another Related Court Win. These are starting to stack up...
Court Win: Judge Orders Details of RCMP’s ‘Nullifications,’ Says They Are Revocations
Canadian gun owners won a major victory in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice today, advancing their fight against Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s mass criminalizations and confiscations begun in May 2020.
Disclosure Order
Justice Antonio Skarica of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice ordered details of the RCMP’s unprecedented and unheard of “nullifications” of firearm-registration certificates in 2020, and equated them to revocations.
Why It Matters
Today’s ruling is the second case gun owners have won in higher courts, compared to zero for Trudeau.
It expands the type of evidence that a provincial judge may order from the government in future hearings under Section 74 of the federal Firearms Act.
The victory was won by five gun owners who represented themselves in court without a lawyer.
Context
Trudeau’s governing Liberal Party and the RCMP have so far refused to disclose details of their “nullifications,” both in court and in responding to questions from TheGunBlog.ca
The RCMP invented the tactic to help Trudeau confiscate popular rifles and shotguns from hundreds of thousands of government-licensed owners.
Trudeau has no idea or plan for how to execute his crackdown. He failed to complete it by his April 2022 deadline and will probably fail again.
https://thegunblog.ca/2022/11/03/court-win-judge-orders-details-of-rcmps-nullifications-dismisses-secrecy-request/?mc_cid=044c9d0821&mc_eid=UNIQID
This is but one of the Courts that the liberals refused to release specifically directed requests for information from. The Judges have all right to be PO'd at them. This time, this one DEMANDED they produce the information. Period. Full Stop.
What has materially changed?
The Stipulations on a Revocation are explicitly detailed in the Act, and the nullifications did not meet those Stipulations. Period. Full Stop.
It was simply a poorly designed introduction to try and get around the related legal issues.
The Judge has now called that out.
So now, either we all get revocation letters.... to which we can all file Section 74 contests to (opening that door up to a huge number that can & will tie up the courts for years, allowing those who do so to retain their personal property until such time as the individual cases are decided), or the Judge finds the government in contempt. How do you figure the balance of the case might proceed if they attempt to end run the court once again?
Cheers,
Nog
Court Win: Judge Orders Details of RCMP’s ‘Nullifications,’ Says They Are Revocations
Canadian gun owners won a major victory in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice today, advancing their fight against Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s mass criminalizations and confiscations begun in May 2020.
Disclosure Order
Justice Antonio Skarica of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice ordered details of the RCMP’s unprecedented and unheard of “nullifications” of firearm-registration certificates in 2020, and equated them to revocations.
Why It Matters
Today’s ruling is the second case gun owners have won in higher courts, compared to zero for Trudeau.
It expands the type of evidence that a provincial judge may order from the government in future hearings under Section 74 of the federal Firearms Act.
The victory was won by five gun owners who represented themselves in court without a lawyer.
Context
Trudeau’s governing Liberal Party and the RCMP have so far refused to disclose details of their “nullifications,” both in court and in responding to questions from TheGunBlog.ca
The RCMP invented the tactic to help Trudeau confiscate popular rifles and shotguns from hundreds of thousands of government-licensed owners.
Trudeau has no idea or plan for how to execute his crackdown. He failed to complete it by his April 2022 deadline and will probably fail again.
https://thegunblog.ca/2022/11/03/court-win-judge-orders-details-of-rcmps-nullifications-dismisses-secrecy-request/?mc_cid=044c9d0821&mc_eid=UNIQID
This is but one of the Courts that the liberals refused to release specifically directed requests for information from. The Judges have all right to be PO'd at them. This time, this one DEMANDED they produce the information. Period. Full Stop.
What has materially changed?
The Stipulations on a Revocation are explicitly detailed in the Act, and the nullifications did not meet those Stipulations. Period. Full Stop.
It was simply a poorly designed introduction to try and get around the related legal issues.
The Judge has now called that out.
So now, either we all get revocation letters.... to which we can all file Section 74 contests to (opening that door up to a huge number that can & will tie up the courts for years, allowing those who do so to retain their personal property until such time as the individual cases are decided), or the Judge finds the government in contempt. How do you figure the balance of the case might proceed if they attempt to end run the court once again?
Cheers,
Nog
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
-
IronNoggin
- Posts: 3578
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:53 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
Re: OT: Canadain Firearm Buy Back Program
From the discussion on Gun Nutz:
72 (1) Subject to subsection (1.1), if a chief firearms officer decides to refuse to issue or to revoke a licence or authorization to transport or the Registrar decides to refuse to issue or to revoke a registration certificate, authorization to export or authorization to import, the chief firearms officer or Registrar shall give notice of the decision in the prescribed form to the applicant for or holder of the licence, registration certificate or authorization.
Marginal note:When notice not required
(1.1) Notice under subsection (1) need not be given in any of the following circumstances:
(a) if the holder has requested that the licence, registration certificate or authorization be revoked; or
(b) if the revocation is incidental to the issuance of a new licence, registration certificate or authorization.
Marginal note:Material to accompany notice
(2) A notice given under subsection (1) must include reasons for the decision disclosing the nature of the information relied on for the decision and must be accompanied by a copy of sections 74 to 81.
I didnt get this.. did you?
It is written in the law.... MUST...
So, The court should now say that the revocation was not valid on these grounds.
Again, if the Government wants to commit to the revocation of our certificates, then they MUST issue a new revocation in the prescribed form... by law.... Which gives all holders of said certificates the ability to file a S.74 challenge.
72 (1) Subject to subsection (1.1), if a chief firearms officer decides to refuse to issue or to revoke a licence or authorization to transport or the Registrar decides to refuse to issue or to revoke a registration certificate, authorization to export or authorization to import, the chief firearms officer or Registrar shall give notice of the decision in the prescribed form to the applicant for or holder of the licence, registration certificate or authorization.
Marginal note:When notice not required
(1.1) Notice under subsection (1) need not be given in any of the following circumstances:
(a) if the holder has requested that the licence, registration certificate or authorization be revoked; or
(b) if the revocation is incidental to the issuance of a new licence, registration certificate or authorization.
Marginal note:Material to accompany notice
(2) A notice given under subsection (1) must include reasons for the decision disclosing the nature of the information relied on for the decision and must be accompanied by a copy of sections 74 to 81.
I didnt get this.. did you?
It is written in the law.... MUST...
So, The court should now say that the revocation was not valid on these grounds.
Again, if the Government wants to commit to the revocation of our certificates, then they MUST issue a new revocation in the prescribed form... by law.... Which gives all holders of said certificates the ability to file a S.74 challenge.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."