POPE AND YOUNG CROSSBOW POLICY STATEMENT
The Pope and Young was founded to promote bowhunting and to record for posterity the outstanding examples of North American big game animals taken solely with the hunting bow.
For the purpose of the Pope and Young Club, a bow shall be defined as a longbow, recurve bow or compound bow that is hand-held and hand-drawn, and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full or partial draw. Other than the energy stored by the drawn bow, no device to propel the arrow will be permitted.
Consequently, the Pope and Young Club does not consider the crossbow to be a hunting bow and will not accept an trophies collected by crossbow hunters. Further, the Pope and Young Club considers the use of the crossbow during bowhunting seasons to be a serious threat to the future of bowhunting.
The Pope and Young Club therefore recommends the crossbow should not be considered for use in any bowhunting season. Also, the club strongly recommends that crossbow hunting be abolished from all existing bowhunting only seasons and the use of the crossbows for hunting be restricted to firearms seasons.
Gentlemen - It would appear that the fine folks of the Pope and Young Club have taken what they deem to be the "high ground" on the the crossbow issue. I can't say that I am surprised, but I am very disappointed by their anti-hunting attitude. If they are the best our sport has to offer, then our hunting future and we as hunters are truly in deep "poop and dung".
POPE AND YOUNG CROSSBOW POLICY STATEMENT
POPE AND YOUNG CROSSBOW POLICY STATEMENT
It's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you are not!
Daniel James Hendricks
POB 251
Glenwood, MN 56334
320-634-3660
Email: bowtwang@charter.net
Website: www.horizontalbowhunter.com
Daniel James Hendricks
POB 251
Glenwood, MN 56334
320-634-3660
Email: bowtwang@charter.net
Website: www.horizontalbowhunter.com
This may not be true of anyone else - but to me, the various scoring systems like Pope and Young (or Boone and Crockett, or any state sanctioned point system) only makes for great suppertime conversation and is wonderful for those who view hunting as a competitive sport...
... I'd rather discuss a good venison chili recipe than a P&Y score.
And as for restricting crozboos to gun season, they can kiss my lily white butt.
... I'd rather discuss a good venison chili recipe than a P&Y score.
And as for restricting crozboos to gun season, they can kiss my lily white butt.
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Brampton Mike
- Posts: 902
- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 6:05 am
- Location: Brampton Ontario Canada
I feel the same as others here. P&Y can do what they want with their club, but should keep their noses out of laws that allow crossbows during the archery season. (Selfish buggers!!!)
If anyone has their website where we can email, we could all let them know how we feel about this!
If anyone has their website where we can email, we could all let them know how we feel about this!
Pete
The great outdoors is where I want to be.
The great outdoors is where I want to be.
-
kyhogan
Who cares about Pope & Young anyway!...I sure don't...
I'd like to see anyone of them blow hards hunt the firearm season with the crossbow!...
I know how it is to do so, and it ain't easy!...
Maybe we should flood 'em with emails anyway, just to make a point!..
http://www.pope-young.org/
email addy: pyclub@isl.net
I'd like to see anyone of them blow hards hunt the firearm season with the crossbow!...
I know how it is to do so, and it ain't easy!...
here you go Woodsman,Woodsman wrote:
If anyone has their website where we can email, we could all let them know how we feel about this!
Maybe we should flood 'em with emails anyway, just to make a point!..
http://www.pope-young.org/
email addy: pyclub@isl.net
Last edited by LoneWolf on Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ontario Trophy Bucks
Guess they forgot that a modern compound bow is much more technically advanced than an Excalibur crossbow........let's not forget, P&Y recently relaxed their rules to allow for more let-off........their "standards" are a moving target that changes with advancing technology and the almighty dollar! Ever wonder why they changed their rules to allow "trophies" taken with higher let-off compounds???? I suspect it was because most new bow sales were the more advanced bows and P&Y saw the writing on the wall.....if they didn't change the rules......it wouldn't be long before they wouldn't have any new trophies to enter in the book!
That's one of the biggest problems I have with anti crossbow folks that embrace modern compounds.......a modern compound bow has about as much in common with the bows that Pope and Young actually used as a model T does with a Ferrari!
Face it folks, they can and will rationalize anything........they still consider a compound with 85% let-off, triggered by release, shooting carbon arrows, a "primitive weapon".......
That's one of the biggest problems I have with anti crossbow folks that embrace modern compounds.......a modern compound bow has about as much in common with the bows that Pope and Young actually used as a model T does with a Ferrari!
Face it folks, they can and will rationalize anything........they still consider a compound with 85% let-off, triggered by release, shooting carbon arrows, a "primitive weapon".......
-
Woody Williams
- Posts: 6440
- Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 5:07 pm
Desperate people in desperate times.
I agree - it is their "contest" and they can run it any which way they want.
They see the handwriting on the wall in more and more states legalizing crossbows and are just trying to head it off.
The P & Y club has been instrumental in getting some of their asinine "contest rules" (which were recently changed) accepted in a few western states.
Speaking of changing to let off rule to an 'any let off you want to use' rule here is what they said just a few short years ago at the First National Bowhunter Conference in St. Louis.
G. Fred Asbell at the First National Bowhunter Conference on why P & Y chose 65% let off - "The Pope and Young Club chose the 65% let-off as the maximum allowable for compound bows. The intent was to set a limit, beyond which a bow departed from being a hand-held, hand-drawn weapon that enjoyed primitive status.
But, it also seemed foolish to attempt to turn back the clock, and to disallow what everyone was already shooting. At the time of the Pope and Young Club fair chase amendment, 65% let-off was the upper edge of what was being manufactured and sold on a large scale. A few bows were being offered above that level, although most were experimental.
We became aware that some were experimenting with let-offs above 90% (which were felt at that time to be akin to a vertically held crossbow.) A majority of the compound bows being manufactured and sold at that time were below 65%. This is where the Pope and Young Club decided to draw a line."
WW- It seems that "drawn line" got washed away by the number of over 65% let off bows being sold. They had to change or become a dinosaur.
I agree - it is their "contest" and they can run it any which way they want.
They see the handwriting on the wall in more and more states legalizing crossbows and are just trying to head it off.
The P & Y club has been instrumental in getting some of their asinine "contest rules" (which were recently changed) accepted in a few western states.
Speaking of changing to let off rule to an 'any let off you want to use' rule here is what they said just a few short years ago at the First National Bowhunter Conference in St. Louis.
G. Fred Asbell at the First National Bowhunter Conference on why P & Y chose 65% let off - "The Pope and Young Club chose the 65% let-off as the maximum allowable for compound bows. The intent was to set a limit, beyond which a bow departed from being a hand-held, hand-drawn weapon that enjoyed primitive status.
But, it also seemed foolish to attempt to turn back the clock, and to disallow what everyone was already shooting. At the time of the Pope and Young Club fair chase amendment, 65% let-off was the upper edge of what was being manufactured and sold on a large scale. A few bows were being offered above that level, although most were experimental.
We became aware that some were experimenting with let-offs above 90% (which were felt at that time to be akin to a vertically held crossbow.) A majority of the compound bows being manufactured and sold at that time were below 65%. This is where the Pope and Young Club decided to draw a line."
WW- It seems that "drawn line" got washed away by the number of over 65% let off bows being sold. They had to change or become a dinosaur.
Woody Williams
We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo Possum
Hunting in Indiana at [size=84][color=Red][b][url=http://huntingindiana.proboards52.com]HUNT-INDIANA[/url][/b][/color][/size]
We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo Possum
Hunting in Indiana at [size=84][color=Red][b][url=http://huntingindiana.proboards52.com]HUNT-INDIANA[/url][/b][/color][/size]
Actually, Gonhuntin, the core group of P & Y did not favor the relaxation of the let-off restrictions. But, since most of the compound companies don’t make anything but 85% let-off and the general members overruled the core in a membership vote, the core had to relax the let-off restrictions.
However, if a club member takes and animal with an 85% let-off bow (or at least admits to it) the animal is entered in the book with an asterisk in front of the entry. Therefore everyone will know that the hunter used one of them thar bows that the general membership shoved down the core’s throat.
It is my belief that this “Official Crossbow Policy” will be a wake-up call for many of the general members of the organization. The core will not change their attitudes, however. Any hunter with brains enough to pour sewage out of a camo boot should realize that this type of an anti-hunting attitude is not acceptable to the future of our sport. I know they resent being called anti-hunters in camo, but there is no other way to describe selfish, discriminatory, elitist attitude of that organization.
I for one, will not remain silent at such unacceptable behavior. We will never change the hearts and minds of the core, but a lot of their general members are reachable. We must state our case calmly and intelligently to everyone that will listen.
As has been pointed out by other posters on this thread, the first two paragraphs of their policy statement are fine and well within their rights. But when they openly declare that their anti-hunting policies be shoved down the throats of all hunters and that already established hunting privileges be banned, then they have declared war on all hunters, in general.
Now in my little pea-sized brain, I believe that is not right. I feel it would also be wrong for anyone who truly cares about our sport and it’s trembling future, to sit by and let their challenge go unanswered.
Emailing them will have no effect, because they don’t give a rip what we think. The fact that we support ALL forms of hunting with ALL weapons (including the crossbow) is just one more indication of how inferior and insignificant we are in the world of the “True Archer”. We have to take our case to the grassroots hunters in the form of face to face communication. Where ever we go and what ever we do, our message must be consistent and heartfelt. We all love to hunt and we all have to work together or are passion is doomed to extinction. We must lead through example by truly supporting all hunting activities and letting everyone know that we do.
However, if a club member takes and animal with an 85% let-off bow (or at least admits to it) the animal is entered in the book with an asterisk in front of the entry. Therefore everyone will know that the hunter used one of them thar bows that the general membership shoved down the core’s throat.
It is my belief that this “Official Crossbow Policy” will be a wake-up call for many of the general members of the organization. The core will not change their attitudes, however. Any hunter with brains enough to pour sewage out of a camo boot should realize that this type of an anti-hunting attitude is not acceptable to the future of our sport. I know they resent being called anti-hunters in camo, but there is no other way to describe selfish, discriminatory, elitist attitude of that organization.
I for one, will not remain silent at such unacceptable behavior. We will never change the hearts and minds of the core, but a lot of their general members are reachable. We must state our case calmly and intelligently to everyone that will listen.
As has been pointed out by other posters on this thread, the first two paragraphs of their policy statement are fine and well within their rights. But when they openly declare that their anti-hunting policies be shoved down the throats of all hunters and that already established hunting privileges be banned, then they have declared war on all hunters, in general.
Now in my little pea-sized brain, I believe that is not right. I feel it would also be wrong for anyone who truly cares about our sport and it’s trembling future, to sit by and let their challenge go unanswered.
Emailing them will have no effect, because they don’t give a rip what we think. The fact that we support ALL forms of hunting with ALL weapons (including the crossbow) is just one more indication of how inferior and insignificant we are in the world of the “True Archer”. We have to take our case to the grassroots hunters in the form of face to face communication. Where ever we go and what ever we do, our message must be consistent and heartfelt. We all love to hunt and we all have to work together or are passion is doomed to extinction. We must lead through example by truly supporting all hunting activities and letting everyone know that we do.
It's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you are not!
Daniel James Hendricks
POB 251
Glenwood, MN 56334
320-634-3660
Email: bowtwang@charter.net
Website: www.horizontalbowhunter.com
Daniel James Hendricks
POB 251
Glenwood, MN 56334
320-634-3660
Email: bowtwang@charter.net
Website: www.horizontalbowhunter.com
yep, and to paraphrase a great Jack Nicholson line appropriate to those egomaniacs (from the First Batman)bstout wrote:Economics probably plays a part somewhere in the grand scheme of things. As soon as it's profitable for them to change their ethics will follow the cash.
Bob
that club needs an enema
