When was the Crossbow first used

kendo kid · Post by **kendo kid** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:24 pm

Folks,
I was reading the Chinese (Tang) first used crossbow in military operations in 650's Does anybody know an earlier date of use?
Kendo Kid

Digger · Post by **Digger** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:53 pm

The earliest recorded use of a crossbow was around 300 BC.

Digger

http://www.worldcrossbow.com/history.html

kendo kid · Post by **kendo kid** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:21 pm

Digger,
Which culture?
Kendo Kid

TYE · Post by **TYE** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:22 pm

Them crazy buggers who lived in caves.

BUCKSHOT · Post by **BUCKSHOT** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:52 pm

There are probably numerous records, but in a quick check on
Crossbow History @ internet.

341 BC- the earliest reliable record of the use of of the crossbow was at the battle of Ma-Ling China
http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/cr ... ology.html

kendo kid · Post by **kendo kid** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:01 pm

Great little site. Thanks.

Not to offend anyone But

"1139 CE --- Pope Innocent II condemns and forbids the use of the crossbow by Christians against Christians by saying they are "deathly and hateful to God and unfit to be used among Christians."

Seems like the Kentucky folks used a similar argument.

kendo Kid

doegirl · Post by **doegirl** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:01 am

Not to offend anyone But

"1139 CE --- Pope Innocent II condemns and forbids the use of the crossbow by Christians against Christians by saying they are "deathly and hateful to God and unfit to be used among Christians."

Read carefully, Christian vs. Christian. Must of did too good of a job. No prohibition against a Christian using a crossbow to kill a nonChristian though. Know that England prohibited crossbows in the 16th century to keep longbowman from using xbows. Were doing a number on the king's deer herd, as well

Probably where the notion of the crossbow being a poaching weapon originated from.

kendo kid · Post by **kendo kid** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:31 am

I would be very surprised about wide spread use by poachers. The Crossbow was a composite of bone, wood and metal and would be very expensive to purchase. The poacher would have to have some major bucks to purchase one. Which should indicate he was doing very well financially with what ever he was using. Sso why would he switch to a crossbow? Because he had a lot of disposable income? Not.

brayhaven · Post by **brayhaven** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:44 am

kendo kid wrote:I would be very surprised about wide spread use by poachers. The Crossbow was a composite of bone, wood and metal and would be very expensive to purchase. The poacher would have to have some major bucks to purchase one. Which should indicate he was doing very well financially with what ever he was using. Sso why would he switch to a crossbow? Because he had a lot of disposable income? Not.

As a military advisor in Vietnam, I spent a great deal of my time, living among the Montagnards. They are a mountain people who used the crossbow for small game hunting very effectively. They make them up with bamboo bows and a reed type string and simple T type trigger. The bolt are fletched with palm leaves and the quivers are bamboo hung from the waist or neck with a reed thong. They showed me how to make one and it was quite simple to do in a half day or so.. It used all materials from the jungle.
Of course, that was 35 years ago. They probably all have Excaliburs by now

Greg

kendo kid · Post by **kendo kid** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:31 am

brayhaven,
Thanks for the information. What do you estimate was the draw weight they good generate with that crossbow? What range as it good for?
That type of crossbow is probably good in close. But the type European Crossbow was bone, meal and ivory. Real class act with an awesome pull weight. That is why they had to use a cocking lever. Pretty expensive and sophisticated "poaching" weapon. Of course the stick bow was never used for poaching (wink wink) and the modern high tech archers love to put the poaching label on crossbows.

The development of the stirrup gave the Chinese the edge as a light cavalry in the early 600's and the crossbow was heavily used on the Asian mainland during teh conflicts between Japan and its Korean allies and China . However, a high tech stick bow, actually made from bone and wood, was used by one of the best cavalry units the world has even seen. The Mongols had an effective range of more than 100 meters and could actually throw an arrow more than twice the distance.

However, in 1281 it did not do the Mongols much good when they landed on a island West of Kyushu. The Samurai were the best foot soilders in the world at that time and with out their horses the Mongols were forced to retreat to their boats again. The following night the "Divine Wind" took care of that invasion. Last summer they discovered some of the boats that were wrecked by the typoon. It will be very interesting to see what they bring up during the next few summers as the "excavate" the ocean floor.

brayhaven, do you have any photographs of the Vietnam crossbow?

Kendo Kid

GaryL · Post by **GaryL** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:00 am

kendo kid, I seen that doc. on the "in 1281 it did not do the Mongols much good when they landed on a island West of Kyushu. The Samurai were the best foot soilders in the world at that time and with out their horses the Mongols were forced to retreat to their boats again. The following night the "Divine Wind" took care of that invasion. Last summer they discovered some of the boats that were wrecked by the typoon. "

I also thought intill I seen that documentary that the Mongols were the best archers in the world at that time. Love watching them History documentary's..One learns a lot....

I then seen a documentary that stated at that time in history that the Samurai were the best Archer's in the world.

LeGrand · Post by **LeGrand** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:36 pm

Kendo kid, maybe the poachers were also thieves and appropriated quality gear for poaching

brayhaven · Post by **brayhaven** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:08 pm

kendo kid wrote:brayhaven,
Thanks for the information. What do you estimate was the draw weight they good generate with that crossbow? What range as it good for?
That type of crossbow is probably good in close.
brayhaven, do you have any photographs of the Vietnam crossbow?

Kendo Kid

They were quite light. Under 50#. the bolts were @ 12-14" long and feather light. I would say they could kill a bird or small animal out to 15 -20 yards with them. They were quite accurate & could hit the end of a beer can @ 30 feet about every time. I wish I had kept pictures of them. I had a lot of slides I took of these people, but unfortunately they deteriorated in the attic. What amazed me is the simplicity of them and the fact they could go into the jungle in a loin cloth with a knife and come out 5 or 6 hours later with a crossbow & a quiver of bolts. I bought a lot of them from them and traded the guys at the air force base for them. I could get 3 cases of beer or a case of shotgun shells for one. I paid @ $5 for them IIRC. The stocks were just straight and went under the arm. The T-trigger worked great and let off nicely.
Greg

Rick Teal · Post by **Rick Teal** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:08 am

I can't quote a source on this, but many years ago, I read of the discovery of some frescoes in Turkey that appeared to depict soldiers using crossbows in battle. The frescoes dated from 4,000 BC. At the time the opinion was being challenged by the (history) establishment, but it does raise some questions.

Tar Heel · Post by **Tar Heel** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:58 pm

moving

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When was the Crossbow first used

When was the Crossbow first used

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