Predator Hunting Questions

[MTBighorn]

Thanks Chad!

Well I like to hunt the timber too...I just bought a Lynx in hopes to hunt the Wolf with my crossbow in the forested areas on snowshoes this winter.

In this case the wind is usually less predictable and swirling. So I can assume that the area where I parked my truck and walked into my stand has been disrupted, so I will want that area to my back regardless of wind.

I would set up with the E-caller/decoy out in front of me where I could see it. I really would try to get my call at a 45* angle to wind, myself, and the area that I believe that the predator will be coming from if possible. This way my sent funnel will not be blowing directly over my call.

Like the Great diagram posted by Parwannab on the first page (thank you Par!)....I am assuming that he is setting up with his back to his back-trail and is predicting where he believes the predator will be coming from due to the natural funnels and landscape. Even though the wind is (technically) wrong for most predators, he is successful because it is a great set up with enough open ground to catch the predator in the open, even if the yote is trying to circle.....And with 62 yotes to Par's credit, he is doing something right ..but I would bet a Zombie Slayer that his set (the one pictured) would produce more (mature) coyotes on days with a x-wind or when at his back.

[Pydpiper]

I guess I am the odd man out because I like the 7mm Remington for my coyote hunting.

I live where you are just as likely to call in a Bear, Wolf, or Mountain Lion and shots can be very far. The big caliber gives me excellent accuracy to 800yrds and the 7mm will buck quite a bit of wind.

I see posts about the wind direction??? Well I understand that having the wind in your face is the "proper" way to hunt..but NOT for predators!.... NO self respecting predator will ever come in up wind. They will almost always circle to get downwind before they will show them selves. This is where it is nice to have the long range capability of the big 7

My dad taught me this when I was just a very little. I called for months and never even got a sighting of the coyote or fox. So he went with me one night.

We walked in and I set up just like I was taught to hunt, (by him) with the wind in my face! He just smiled and walked around the other side of the tree. After just a couple minutes of me calling, his rifle Boomed...scared the heck out of me and he had killed a coyote at 60yards...coming in downwind. He shoots a 243....That was 35 years ago.

I like my mouth calls but... I just got a Primo's Alpha Dawg and have really been doing well with it. I like the Alpha because the remote allows me to place the call, and then walk 75-150yards downwind (usually at an angle) to set up. As the predator comes in he has no idea that when he circles downwind, and hangs up at 200yrds, that he is setting right in my lap

While calling at night with a mouth call, I once had a lion crawl right up beside me and lay down at about 8ft Imagine my surprise when I kicked on the spotlight!!! So it is real nice to be able to distance myself a little ways from the call when calling at night just for safety.

My 10 year old son missed a yote a couple nights ago with his 22lr at 40 yrds. I set the call and walked 80yrds closer to the cover...the yote came in so fast that he nearly ran over us!!! Needless to say my son is HOOKED on the hunt now

Good on you for the kid thing, it is the BEST!
When an experienced person speaks of wind, thy are usually referring to where the dog will go, not necessarily where it is. It's about planning ahead. Best of luck to you and your son!

[Pydpiper]

Thanks Piper, that's some good information to fall back on. I think for right now I'm going to go with what I have, a 30-30, which I use for deer hunting. As for right now, I'll be hunting the mountains and fields. As WE ALL do, I'll be watching my shooting direction and backstops for safety and not worry too much about a pass through.

Now I'm understanding exactly what a 204 is, it's more comparable to a 22 type round. I mistakenly thought that it was a bigger rifle round. I think that when I do buy something it'll probably be in a 243 due to it's dual purpose capabilities.

If and when I ever get to a point of being able to specialize in guns, then I'll begin to seek out such things as the 204.

Thanks again,
Chad

My pleasure. I live and breath coyotes.
If I set out for a single rifle for coyote and deer, I would have a long hard look at a 25-06, pretty badazz caliber too.

[TheBig1]

I must tell everyone thank you so much for making this thread so informational. There is so much good information here that it's going to take some time to process and analyze it all.

Keep the tips and recommendations coming. This will be a thread to definitely reference, as well as other's threads of success, for a long time to come.

I can't wait until this weekend. I cleaned my 30-30 and put it away after rifle season but I guess it's time to get it back out. I'll probably be out on Sunday after church and Monday since it's a holiday.

So again, keep it all coming. I just have to reread Bighorn's and Pipers threads about the wind to try and understand it further. When everyone says play the wind I assume to keep it in my face. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. If I'm not mistaken and understand correctly, it'd be better to set up off to the side of the decoy/caller with the wind coming at the 2-3 o'clock or 9-10 o'clock positions in your face.

Chad

[Pydpiper]

I must tell everyone thank you so much for making this thread so informational. There is so much good information here that it's going to take some time to process and analyze it all.

Keep the tips and recommendations coming. This will be a thread to definitely reference, as well as other's threads of success, for a long time to come.

I can't wait until this weekend. I cleaned my 30-30 and put it away after rifle season but I guess it's time to get it back out. I'll probably be out on Sunday after church and Monday since it's a holiday.

So again, keep it all coming. I just have to reread Bighorn's and Pipers threads about the wind to try and understand it further. When everyone says play the wind I assume to keep it in my face. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. If I'm not mistaken and understand correctly, it'd be better to set up off to the side of the decoy/caller with the wind coming at the 2-3 o'clock or 9-10 o'clock positions in your face.

Chad

Just like a deer, a coyote will try to wind you. Difference is, a coyote is WAY better at it. They can loop you in a few minutes, peg you, and move on before you even knew they were there. In most circumstances I set up knowing this, and catch them trying to catch me.
Always wonder though, how many have outsmarted me in this process, and I know it is a whole lot.
First thought is that the problem is that they nailed you, but there is more to it, a lot more.
They are dogs, and like all dogs they are trainable. If you run a call and a coyote associates it to you, you will never get him to respond again, he will hear your call and instead of seeing it as a meal, he will see it as a hunter. That's why you need a few calls in your arsenal. a new spot, pretty much any high frequency will bring them in, if even only for a look. But the second they relate that sound to danger, your calling will drive them away, not bring them in.
When you see a hunter with a neck full of calls, rest assured, he learned that lesson.
If you have to hunt the same spot more than once in 30 days, shake it up, change location, if even just a 20 yards, change the calls, the volume, frequency..
I have one property that I can see them, at 500 yards they hear me call and I know they are thinking "oh, him again", and that is fine for why I am there. My calling is good, new animals will come, but the veterans of the land laugh at me, they simply know it is me. Again, that is fine, they bail anyways because I am there. At times, I do it on purpose, calving cows. The farmer will tell me when the cow is ready to drop so I will run a sequence that tells the coyotes I am there, just the old ones, and it keeps them away while the cow is birthing. Same outcome, different approach.

[TheBig1]

Thanks Piper, I appreciate that. I just can't believe all of the good info that's coming out. Maybe I'll go to Wally World this weekend and grab one or two calls for this weekend.

I can't wait to get out there. I'm hoping that I have better success with coyotes than I did with deer this year.

Chad

[Pydpiper]

I don't always attend a contract to kill the animals, sometimes, it is just about knowing the animals, so I study them.
I am working a farm right now that houses about 150 cows, not big by any means. But these cows are insured from 60k to 400K per head. It isn't because they give better milk, it is about genetics. The prize cow is a world class breeder, she is cleaned out a couple times a year for embryos, they sell all over the world at about 150k a pop. The insurance company makes sure she is looked after, and they are the ones who hired me.
It is one of those times where "bad calling" is just what is needed, it tells them about presence, cow safe, job done. It isn't hard to screw up a calling sequence, and at times, it is all that is needed to keep them away.
Hands are full, I would be happier if I could just deflate the coyote to start with, but I wasn't the first person they tried, so now I have to come in and try to work around what the other person did wrong, and work with it. Smart buggers.
From a recreational standpoint it is just about mixing up the calling, feed them something they haven't ate before and you are in, provided you don't get busted in the meantime. Dead coyote is always nice, but not always possible.
Mix it up, and whack them all!

[TheBig1]

Thanks Piper, I'm digging the advice.

[TheBig1]

Piper, as well as anyone else, I just thought of something. In archery season during the rut my son and I were sitting in the blind using The Can. I had my deer target set out as a decoy also which I doused in estrus. My son said that he saw something but I didn't so I thought that he was full of it. About 5 or 10 minutes later I then see it. It's a coyote running around just out of range and in the brush.

We got so excited that we're grabbing for the crossbow, darn near fighting over it and who's going to shoot it, when he must have seen us and darted off. It was this sighting that kind of got me hooked as I'd never seen one while hunting before.

Now when I was using The Can, I would only hit 3 bleats about every hour or so. I can't honestly remember when I hit in comparison to when the coyote showed up, but do you think that I shouldn't use The Can again? Did I educate this coyote to The Can?

I'll be honest, I never thought that'd call in a coyote. And then yesterday I saw online a calling kit by Primos that included The Can and it hit me.

Chad

[Pydpiper]

Piper, as well as anyone else, I just thought of something. In archery season during the rut my son and I were sitting in the blind using The Can. I had my deer target set out as a decoy also which I doused in estrus. My son said that he saw something but I didn't so I thought that he was full of it. About 5 or 10 minutes later I then see it. It's a coyote running around just out of range and in the brush.

We got so excited that we're grabbing for the crossbow, darn near fighting over it and who's going to shoot it, when he must have seen us and darted off. It was this sighting that kind of got me hooked as I'd never seen one while hunting before.

Now when I was using The Can, I would only hit 3 bleats about every hour or so. I can't honestly remember when I hit in comparison to when the coyote showed up, but do you think that I shouldn't use The Can again? Did I educate this coyote to The Can?

I'll be honest, I never thought that'd call in a coyote. And then yesterday I saw online a calling kit by Primos that included The Can and it hit me.

Chad

You are the only one who can answer that. The answer sits with how the coyotes reacted.
If they came to the call and turned away because it was something they didn't want, you are fine. If they ran away because that call associated them to you, then switch.
Last year I was goose hunting with my son, 2 deer approached us trying to figure out the sound. One deer, the mature 8 point walked right up to him, standing in a corn field, no cover. The deer was 24" in front of my sons nose, trying to peg what he was. I could see my sons hair move every time the deer snorted. Wind was good, deer left happy but confused. I was 10 yards away hammering on my goose call, hard. Not only one of the coolest things I have ever seen, but also a testament to the difference between an animal that was curious opposed to one that was spooked. I was actually scared, I was 10 yards down watching, my sons eyes like pie plates. Never, ever seen anything like it, nor has he. He poked it a month later.
Moral is, if they associate that sound to trouble they will remember it forever, and ever. If it is just a curiosity visit, then carry on.
If your animal tucked tail and bailed, then change it up, if it left simply because it wasn't interested then keep it up, you found something it liked, or was interested in. If it left because it knew you were a predator then you need to change, if it left from boredom, hit it again.
I use turkey decoys, fawn decoys, or anything else that seems to be on the menu to bring them in.
To answer your question, the method that dog used to leave the room will dictate if you can bring him back.
Again, it is all about presentation, and if you mess it up, and you will, watch how they leave, their demeanour will tell you if they will be back.
You have good questions, you will do well with this.

[TheBig1]

Thanks Piper, I appreciate it. That's a pretty cool story about your son. As I was reading the story I could actually see his eyes as you were describing them. At least he got it a month later.

As for the coyote that I did see. Again, I had my 3D deer target out as a decoy and sprayed it down with estrus. Thinking about what you said, I think that he was circling around, because he kept going back and forth left to right. Again, not sure how close to him arriving that I used the call, but I do believe that it was us moving that spooked him.

Funny thing is that I left my decoy there overnight because I was coming back in the morning. Later that evening when I was packing up and loading up the target, I noticed a big chunk of foam taken out of it's hind quarter. All I could think was, you little SOB! LOL I know that if I had the target on any other stand then the special one that I have, the target would have been laying on the ground.

Chad

[TheBig1]

Bighorn, Piper, or anyone else that may have input on this.

I plan on going out this weekend to get disappointed and learn some hard lessons about coyote hunting. As previously stated, I'll be heading to the mountains. My set up areas will be one of two things. It'll either be near a windmill (the really big ones) that have hard packed roads and are surrounded by 1/2 acre of food plot, or my setup will just be in the woods.

So I'm guessing that between the two, my maximum shooting distance would be approximately 50-100 yards. What type of gun should I take, a rifle or a shotgun? If rifle, should it be open sights or scoped?

Again, thanks all for your help.
Chad

[MTBighorn]

So I'm guessing that between the two, my maximum shooting distance would be approximately 50-100 yards. What type of gun should I take, a rifle or a shotgun? If rifle, should it be open sights or scoped?

Again, thanks all for your help.
Chad

If thought that my shots were going to be inside of 100yards...I would take my M380 Excalibur without a seconds thought!...matter of fact I think I am going to join you and do just that this weekend.

[Pydpiper]

Bighorn, Piper, or anyone else that may have input on this.

I plan on going out this weekend to get disappointed and learn some hard lessons about coyote hunting. As previously stated, I'll be heading to the mountains. My set up areas will be one of two things. It'll either be near a windmill (the really big ones) that have hard packed roads and are surrounded by 1/2 acre of food plot, or my setup will just be in the woods.

So I'm guessing that between the two, my maximum shooting distance would be approximately 50-100 yards. What type of gun should I take, a rifle or a shotgun? If rifle, should it be open sights or scoped?

Again, thanks all for your help.
Chad

50 to 100 yards is a challenge, regardless of experience. No help from me on this one. Me, I would choose a rifle that would do 300, and get to that range. Sounds like a cool place though. Good luck!
Enjoy your time, and bring a kid!

[TheBig1]

LOL You two are killing me!!! After all of your advice and tips, you've got nothing on this one.

Well I guess great granddad's old 32 Special with open sights it will be. I've never failed with it.

I don't have an e-caller so I'll have to get a couple of calls this weekend and put them onto my duck call lanyard so that I can at least look like I know what I'm doing. I'll have to come up with some idea of a homemade decoy to blow in the wind though since the wind is always moving around those towers.

Also, I forgot to ask you guys. I've seen coyote scents out there for hunting, does anyone use anything like that and if so how exactly do you employ it?

Chad