Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
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- Montana Mark
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:00 pm
Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
So I finally set up a bench in the snow because I needed to test my scope against my son’s scope to see if it was bad. Sure enough, I had a bad scope (a new one is on its way-thanks Dawn). I was using the same arrow/cock feather for the test and got same hole accuracy every shot. I was very pleased with the accuracy of my sons scope and put it back on his bow to sight it in on the bench. I figured I would have it shooting dead center. I abandoned my same arrow/cock feather technique and was only getting 1.5-2” groups (at 30 yards). What the heck? Did a quick check and everything seemed tight. I then used the same arrow/cock feather and had one hole accuracy again. It must be the Diablos. I can’t see us target shooting with one arrow walking back and forth 40-50 yards each shot. I shot groups of 3. If 2 were high and one was low, I clicked down. If 2 were right and one left, I clicked left. Very frustrating that I can only get 1.5-2” groups with the Diablos.
I am confident the bows are accurate and that the scope (Dead Zone) is decent. It’s the Diablos that are the weak link. Frankly I thought the Diablos were expensive. I bought 36 of them (12 with luminoks for hunting). I spent more than $300 on them. I don’t want to buy (more) expensive arrows to beat them up target shooting. I suppose we could use the diablos for target shooting and get 12 nice arrows for hunting. Just sight them in in the fall and use them for the season.
Perhaps I should relax and realize that every single shot I’ve made with the bow would kill a deer-even with the Diablos and a bad scope. As I gain experience, it’s a little more frustrating. I think I’ll put the bench away and do my shooting freehand. It will be better practice for hunting and I won’t be frustrated that my arrow flew 1” low or left. That way, I can hit the target and say to myself “that’s another dead deer”.
I am confident the bows are accurate and that the scope (Dead Zone) is decent. It’s the Diablos that are the weak link. Frankly I thought the Diablos were expensive. I bought 36 of them (12 with luminoks for hunting). I spent more than $300 on them. I don’t want to buy (more) expensive arrows to beat them up target shooting. I suppose we could use the diablos for target shooting and get 12 nice arrows for hunting. Just sight them in in the fall and use them for the season.
Perhaps I should relax and realize that every single shot I’ve made with the bow would kill a deer-even with the Diablos and a bad scope. As I gain experience, it’s a little more frustrating. I think I’ll put the bench away and do my shooting freehand. It will be better practice for hunting and I won’t be frustrated that my arrow flew 1” low or left. That way, I can hit the target and say to myself “that’s another dead deer”.
Matrix Sapphire 325 (forward riser)
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- Ferguson Outfitters
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:14 pm
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
Sometimes I encounter a diablo with a slightly curled or bent fletching. I get them back where the look all even and shoot. I’ve never had an accuracy problem but boy I wish they wouldn’t snap so easy if I don’t have a pass through.
The only weak link I’ve found on an excalibur is those junk scopes. I figured whoever decided on those must have done it for humorous sake.
The only weak link I’ve found on an excalibur is those junk scopes. I figured whoever decided on those must have done it for humorous sake.
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
With that many Diablos at your disposal, I suggest shooting them all and sorting them into groups that print similar together.
Example , group the arrows together that print slightly high, then group the ones together that print low, etc.
Keep the largest group that prints similarly and accurately as your primary hunting arrows and set them aside, then adjust your scope in the fall for this group of arrows.
Use a permanent marker to differentiate groups, so not to mix them up during a shooting session by accident .
Have fun and good luck, and lastly , you may find a couple that don't group well and those will be culls, don'y worry about them.
Example , group the arrows together that print slightly high, then group the ones together that print low, etc.
Keep the largest group that prints similarly and accurately as your primary hunting arrows and set them aside, then adjust your scope in the fall for this group of arrows.
Use a permanent marker to differentiate groups, so not to mix them up during a shooting session by accident .
Have fun and good luck, and lastly , you may find a couple that don't group well and those will be culls, don'y worry about them.
EXCALFFLICTION 1991 ->>----------> 2024
Matrix 355
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Huskemaw and Leupold crossbow optics.
Boo Strings
SWAT BH's and TOTA heads.
Teach Your Family How To Hunt So You Don't Have To Hunt For Your Family
- Montana Mark
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:00 pm
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
Thanks for the suggestions. I will first find the best cock vane that shoots closest to center and mark it. Then I will sort arrows high and low. I’ll mark them and separate them into groups. Excellent ideas!
I’ll also try to relax and realize that I need hunting accuracy not marksmanship accuracy. I’ll focus on shooting well offhand rather than hitting bullseyes from a bench. (I don’t really have a bench, I was sitting on the rear ballast weight of the lawn tractor I use for snow blowing and resting my bow on the seat folded forward onto the steering wheel-actually quite stable.)
I’ll also try to relax and realize that I need hunting accuracy not marksmanship accuracy. I’ll focus on shooting well offhand rather than hitting bullseyes from a bench. (I don’t really have a bench, I was sitting on the rear ballast weight of the lawn tractor I use for snow blowing and resting my bow on the seat folded forward onto the steering wheel-actually quite stable.)
Matrix Sapphire 325 (forward riser)
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- Carnivorous
- Posts: 3776
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- Location: Belleriver Ontario
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
You can always buy some black eagles and your groups will shrink big time! ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
A touch of frost has heightened your awareness and your heart steadily beats in anticipation. Your senses are suddenly alert to the movement on the forest floor and you realize that the moment of truth is at hand.
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
I weigh every bolt with tip and sort them. Also, I like to put my own inserts in. Sometimes when someone else does it the glue is uneven and that seems to make that arrow hit slightly out of the group.
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
X2Carnivorous wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:40 amYou can always buy some black eagles and your groups will shrink big time!![]()
![Thumbup :thumbup:](./images/smilies/icon_thumbup.gif)
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- Ferguson Outfitters
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:14 pm
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
Wheres a link to these black eagles?
Whats the specs?
If my diablo bolts are inside an inch to 60 yards, I can shrink that ?
Whats the specs?
If my diablo bolts are inside an inch to 60 yards, I can shrink that ?
- Montana Mark
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:00 pm
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
I’ll work on weighing and indexing my arrows. If anything, sorting a selection of arrows/cock vanes that fly the same will make me feel like I can sight the bow in as close as possible. I was just frustrated that I could’t feel confident making adjustments to my turrets was doing anything when I was only grouping 1.5-2”. Funny thing happened before I shot groups of 3 and averaged. One arrow shot high right. I adjusted one click down and one click left. I felt sure I could use the same target circle and the next arrow (random arrow/cock vane) robin hooded the previous arrow. Now, I would be proud if that was what I tried to do but since the arrow was supposed to land 3/4 inch away, it pissed me off (basically ruined an arrow because my arrows fly funny).
Matrix Sapphire 325 (forward riser)
Matrix Grizzly (for son #1)
Matrix Grizzly (for son #2)
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Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
Mark, you're on the right track with all the info you've received so far. The only thing I can add is that you should expect to cull some arrows.
Are you using the factory supplied 150 gr field tips?
Are you using the factory supplied 150 gr field tips?
Some people just like stepping on rakes
- Montana Mark
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:00 pm
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
Thanks. I do feel I am on the right track. I am using Excalibur 150 grain field tips. I have this weekend off (rare) and the weather will be nice. I will be spending several pleasant hours at my bench (tractor) shooting, spinning, marking, and sorting arrows. Now that I understand what is going on, I feel less frustrated. I will see all these variable as what makes archery fun and interesting, not frustrating.
Matrix Sapphire 325 (forward riser)
Matrix Grizzly (for son #1)
Matrix Grizzly (for son #2)
Matrix Grizzly (for son #1)
Matrix Grizzly (for son #2)
- Montana Mark
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:00 pm
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
I can’t help it. I’m obsessed. I ordered 6 zombie slayers from wyvern so that I can find zero. Then I can index my Diablos to that. I just hope they can get here by the weekend.
Matrix Sapphire 325 (forward riser)
Matrix Grizzly (for son #1)
Matrix Grizzly (for son #2)
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Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
FYI, buying Zombies will not necessarily achieve the results you seek. The factory assembled arrows are not spine indexed. Even if they were or even if someone locates the spine on a shaft that you assembled yourself, all you have is a dynamically indexed arrow. Static spine is a different story.
I can locate the static spine using a Ram Tester and the Firenock tester and fletch a vane on that mark. Shooting the arrow may prove that you need to use another fletching as the cock vane. There is no 100% reliable way of locating the dynamic spine. One of the reasons is that the spine is not normally linear, it normally winds itself around a shaft. Also, when you put a shaft on a Ram Tester, it is not unusual to see 2 or sometimes more stiff spots on the shaft, each one effecting the flight of the arrow.
Try shooting each arrow and then consider the largest group of arrows the norm. Then try another vane on the other shafts. If that doesn't work, try another group of arrows (if there is one) as the norm. Don't think that you won't have to cull some arrows. Its a fact of life.
I can locate the static spine using a Ram Tester and the Firenock tester and fletch a vane on that mark. Shooting the arrow may prove that you need to use another fletching as the cock vane. There is no 100% reliable way of locating the dynamic spine. One of the reasons is that the spine is not normally linear, it normally winds itself around a shaft. Also, when you put a shaft on a Ram Tester, it is not unusual to see 2 or sometimes more stiff spots on the shaft, each one effecting the flight of the arrow.
Try shooting each arrow and then consider the largest group of arrows the norm. Then try another vane on the other shafts. If that doesn't work, try another group of arrows (if there is one) as the norm. Don't think that you won't have to cull some arrows. Its a fact of life.
Some people just like stepping on rakes
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
Hi Mark. you might want to change up your target. may I suggest using a piece of paper with 5 or 6 dots for your bulls eyes that will save you on busting up all your new arrows. It is not a good idea to shoot at the same dot to see how tight you can make your groups. this is just a thought . good luck with your new bows and welcome .
W.M.
W.M.
Re: Sighting in Diablos off a bench (frustrating)
Mark, at your bench, what are you using to stabilize the forend of your crossbow?
A hard stabilization bag may influence your groups if you are using one. Try a pillow instead.
Back in the day I went through similar frusyrations only to find the hard plastic bunny ear support did not absorb recoil well. A sofa pillow calmed things down and tightened my groups when I did my part.
A hard stabilization bag may influence your groups if you are using one. Try a pillow instead.
Back in the day I went through similar frusyrations only to find the hard plastic bunny ear support did not absorb recoil well. A sofa pillow calmed things down and tightened my groups when I did my part.
EXCALFFLICTION 1991 ->>----------> 2024
Matrix 355
Huskemaw and Leupold crossbow optics.
Boo Strings
SWAT BH's and TOTA heads.
Teach Your Family How To Hunt So You Don't Have To Hunt For Your Family
Matrix 355
Huskemaw and Leupold crossbow optics.
Boo Strings
SWAT BH's and TOTA heads.
Teach Your Family How To Hunt So You Don't Have To Hunt For Your Family