A question for the accuracy nuts

Crossbow Hunting

Moderators: Bill T, Excalibur Marketing Dude

User avatar
dithian
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:35 pm
Location: Hawaii

A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by dithian » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:21 pm

While I would love to be able to put in the time to develop the skill to split the hairs on a gnat at 150 yards in a heavy crosswind, the truth is I don't have it right now. The best I can manage these days is to be good 'nuff for hunting out to 40 yards with confidence. Also, I drink too much coffee. I realize there are a lot of factors in attaining pinpoint accuracy, such as particular bow/string/point/arrow/scope combination, type of rest, not to mention technique and whether or not you've upset the local volcano deity, which I may have done. I am curious about a thing, though. I've noticed with my Micro 335 that my groups are a bit loose at 20 yards, but get super tight at 30. Could this have to do with the arrow's relatively stiff spine plus the short, violent stroke of the Micro and the distance it takes for the arrow to normalize in flight? Any other thoughts?

I'm shooting 16" BBEs (.001) with 100 grain points with a heavy insert and good FOC. I haven't noticed the same phenomenon with my Matrix 330 shooting the same arrow.

paulaboutform
Posts: 4955
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:32 pm
Location: Coquitlam, British Columbia

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by paulaboutform » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:42 pm

What you're describing can have many causes. I would look at checking one thing at a time. First, take only 1 arrow. ONE. Dial that arrow into the X ring at 20 yards. If it's hitting the dime every time at 20 yards, shoot that same arrow at 30 yards, 40 yards, etc.. That would be the first step. Actually, your very first step is to take your allen wrench and make sure all your fasteners are tight. If you can't group with a single arrow I would check your limb tiller and also check your limbs for cracks. Also, a scope issue may be possible. Certainly, make sure all fasteners are tight, then the solo arrow.

Paul
You're only paranoid if everyone isn't out to get you.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
My enemy's friend is also my enemy.

User avatar
DuckHunt
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:07 pm
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by DuckHunt » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:39 am

Speaking of normalizing in flight, what type of fletching are you using and how is it fletched? Straight, helical, etc.

My Micro 335 is a tack driver with 16" BE Zombies with a 92gr brass insert and 2" Blazers fletched helical.
2020 Micro Suppressor 400TD / 2018 Matrix 350 SE / 2015 Micro 335 (Gen 1) / 2006 Exomax 350

Smong2000
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:21 pm
Location: Vermont

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by Smong2000 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:16 am

I was a victim of target panic when shooting vertical bows and saw exactly what you describe. Seems that it looked very easy to hit bulls at 20 yds so I was sloppy on my execution and follow through. When I got out to 40 yds my groups tightened up because I was trying to be smooth and watch the arrow all the way to the target. Just a thought... :eusa-think:

xcaliber
Posts: 10599
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:35 pm
Location: NW Indiana

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by xcaliber » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:53 pm

I would say that spine recovery should self correct well within 20 yards. Check all fasteners as suggested, then sort arrows by numbering them and finding the most accurate by shooting only one, then another, etc. You might have a flyer in the group.
Matrix 330 (Xylia) Bushnell Trophy XLT / Single Stage Trigger Tech
Micro 355 (Jinx) Nikon Bolt XR. TT Single Stage Trigger
Matrix 380 (Max) Redfield Revenge / TT Single Stage Trigger
Axe 340 Kryptek (Axe) Nikon P3 Will be completed 8-31-19

User avatar
AJ01
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Deep in the Heart of the East Texas Piney Woods!

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by AJ01 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:08 pm

Listen to Paul!! He's got the answer. I know it sounds like a pain in the backside, but it's the only way to know for sure!! :thumbup:
"No matter how big a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people"!! :eusa-deadhorse:
"Howdy" and Happy Hunting from the Heart of the East Texas Piney Woods!! :wave:
Micro Suppressor 355 :mrgreen:

User avatar
dithian
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:35 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by dithian » Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:37 pm

Smong2000 wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:16 am
I was a victim of target panic when shooting vertical bows and saw exactly what you describe. Seems that it looked very easy to hit bulls at 20 yds so I was sloppy on my execution and follow through. When I got out to 40 yds my groups tightened up because I was trying to be smooth and watch the arrow all the way to the target. Just a thought... :eusa-think:
This seems like a likely culprit. While I do have a screw loose, all the ones on my bow are snug as a signed portrait of Justin Bieber in a teenage girl's arms. It's quite possible I'm less careful with close shots. I'll have to pay attention to that. Also, I should spend some good one-on-one time with all my arrows. I may have a moody one.

Cardinalsfanforever
Posts: 318
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: Sout. Illinois

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by Cardinalsfanforever » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:46 pm

Sounds like the same problem I have, if I want pinpoint accuracy I get my son or oldest grandson to split hairs for me, seems they do better from my bench. My youngest s on has always been a better shot than me.
matrix 380, 18" BEZS, Vixenmaster
micro 315, 17" BE Execs. Vixenmaster
Axiom SMF, FIRE BOLTS Vixenmaster

paulaboutform
Posts: 4955
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:32 pm
Location: Coquitlam, British Columbia

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by paulaboutform » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:43 am

Here's a little tidbit that may be helpful. Years ago when I shot competitive 3D, I used a fine tipped metal marker to name each arrow. For example, I was a huge UFC fan so I named each arrow after a fighter. The reason being that it was easier to remember a name than a number or letter. If 'Randy Couture' was consistently hitting high or right that was easier to remember than #3 hitting high or right.

Paul
You're only paranoid if everyone isn't out to get you.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
My enemy's friend is also my enemy.

longbow joe
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:55 pm
Location: south eastern pa (bucks county)

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by longbow joe » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:05 pm

Paul l agree ... that's how my mind works also.
But....mine would be cheesesteak....bacon burger then michelob ultra etc...
Micro 335 camo crossbones /matrix 330 nikon bolt /vixen ll / offspring with a micro stock crossbones/ matrix 355 with a micro stock crossbones/ metal ibex (adopted manco morto)/Phoenix/ trigger tec's /xacts/super freak ex's/ spitfires/zombies

User avatar
dithian
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:35 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by dithian » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:46 pm

paulaboutform wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:43 am
Here's a little tidbit that may be helpful. Years ago when I shot competitive 3D, I used a fine tipped metal marker to name each arrow. For example, I was a huge UFC fan so I named each arrow after a fighter. The reason being that it was easier to remember a name than a number or letter. If 'Randy Couture' was consistently hitting high or right that was easier to remember than #3 hitting high or right.

Paul
Great idea. I could use politicians to make it even easier: Bernie Sanders hits far left. Mitch McConnell hits far right. Susan Collins hits consistently a little to the right. Tulsi Gabbard hits all over the place. Rudy Giuliani is high all the time. Problem is, I wouldn't have a name for any hitting dead center. :think:

longbow joe
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:55 pm
Location: south eastern pa (bucks county)

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by longbow joe » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:54 pm

Lol
Micro 335 camo crossbones /matrix 330 nikon bolt /vixen ll / offspring with a micro stock crossbones/ matrix 355 with a micro stock crossbones/ metal ibex (adopted manco morto)/Phoenix/ trigger tec's /xacts/super freak ex's/ spitfires/zombies

User avatar
AJ01
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Deep in the Heart of the East Texas Piney Woods!

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by AJ01 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:00 am

longbow joe wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:05 pm
Paul l agree ... that's how my mind works also.
But....mine would be cheesesteak....bacon burger then michelob ultra etc...
When's lunch????????? I'm starving just thinking about the menu!!! :thumbup: :lol: :eusa-dance:
"No matter how big a hammer you use, you can't pound common sense into stupid people"!! :eusa-deadhorse:
"Howdy" and Happy Hunting from the Heart of the East Texas Piney Woods!! :wave:
Micro Suppressor 355 :mrgreen:

User avatar
nchunterkw
Posts: 2397
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:21 am
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Contact:

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by nchunterkw » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:14 pm

paulaboutform wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:43 am
Here's a little tidbit that may be helpful. Years ago when I shot competitive 3D, I used a fine tipped metal marker to name each arrow. For example, I was a huge UFC fan so I named each arrow after a fighter. The reason being that it was easier to remember a name than a number or letter. If 'Randy Couture' was consistently hitting high or right that was easier to remember than #3 hitting high or right.

Paul
Another thing to consider is shooting each arrow with a different vane in the channel. It really matters. I fletch everything with 3 different colored vanes. Easier to get the correct vane in the channel. IMO no reason to use 2 and 1, or 3 of the same color
Keith
"I can explain it to you...but I can't understand it for you"

Micro, Vortex
RamCat, Slick Trick
BE Zombie, TF Feathers, Trinity Strings
deerboyarchery.wixsite.com/trinitystrings
[email protected]
<{{{><

SEW
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:55 am
Location: NE Arkansas

Re: A question for the accuracy nuts

Post by SEW » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:54 am

I obsess over accuracy. The answers given here are excellent , IMO.
Just a few additional thoughts:
1)the finer the range marks, the more precise the aiming,
2) the greater the magnification, the more precise the aiming,
3) head centered in the scope reduces parallex concerns,
4) all else equal, I've found longer arrows do better for me,
5) don’t count out AL arrows - my most accurate arrows are 23 1/2” , 60g Ethics insert, 125g field point, SK300s in offset, lightest possible AL nock, actually an insert, shot out of my BD400, approach 1” 3-shot groups @100 yards,
6) use great rests -rear and front and good trigger control
7) check your tiller, both cocked and uncocked - balanced limbs help accuracy
8) If you are trying for the most accurate setup, remove yourself as much as possible - see #6 above
9) Only after optimizing your setup, start optimizing yourself.
10) It’s been generally conceded , that the longer the limbs, the more accurate the crossbow. At least with Excaliburs. A Micro isn’t as accurate as a Matrix/BD as a Vortex, etc. a Micro is more of a carbine. Possibly, the longer arrows may negate this somewhat.
11) Arrows are important. Spine indexed, matched, stiff as possible, heavier FOCs, no more vane steering than necessary, extreme consistency of construction.
12) I stated, “a few” , so I’ll stop here.

I don’t know why the smiley is on #8

Post Reply