Stringin Aid

[amythntr]

Wow, this thread is taking on a life of its own!

First off, the end user is ultimately our customer. Consumers are king and decide what they want and how much they want to spend. A dealer can help consumers make decisions but with everybody carrying a phone with instant access to information most consumers know what they want before going to a store.

I have brought up the stringing aid included with crossbow topic again with our team and we will discuss it. I personally would like to see the stringing aid included but there are many factors we need to consider.

Nice mark up Peter.

Let me address this...in my books profit is never a bad word. If a company did not make profit we would all be out of a job and Excalibur crossbow would cease to exist. Everybody on this forum relies or did rely on an income that came from somebody making a profit. Whether it was private or public sector your income came from profit or taxes, it's what makes the world go around. We have almost 100 employee's plus a large facility that takes money to run. We also have to service all our dealers, distributors and end users with warranty which does cost an enormous amount of money.

So, do we make money on stringing aids, absolutely. Can you make your own cheap, yes. You could also cook your own food, make your own furniture and grow your own vegetables. But, there are thousands of businesses that make profit providing these good and services.

Sorry for the long response but it irks me when people complain about companies making money, that is what companies do.

Peter

....well thought out, presented and absolutely true Peter....

....However, with that admitted to be true many of us still believe that a stringer should be included as part of the package....even if it is a simple rope stringer....following the profit algorithm....it might cost Excalibur $1.00 to $1.50 and you could add lets say $5.00 to the bow cost....Which would be considered a very good profit margin in most companies! It would still leave the door open for upgrading at a later date to the $30 variety sold by the company and thereby eliminate any further issues or discussions....

....JMHO...looking forward to meeting you at Boofest Peter!

Anthony

[colouredchameleon]

We all know that guy that never reads instructions.

Actually Peter was not as much about the cost of the Stringing Aid for me it is the frustration it created especially considering it is such a essential part of owning a Excalibur.

As in my case
Discovering you need one while reading the instructions was too late. Which I suspect happens quite often.
I Left the Dealer's Shop pretty excited with my new purchase.
Drove home from Dealer to pickup gear.
Drove to a place where I could legally shoot and set up my crossbow for the first time. ( 30 kms away)
Set up shooting range ( 10 to 50 yds)
Unpack crossbow to assemble as per instruction manual only to discover just as I'm ready to take first shot ( discover Oh crap! string is into bumpers) Look it up in manual only to discover I need a special String Aid which is a must have but not included.
Tempted to shot anyway but decided was not the best choice to do so.

Packed everything up drove back ( pi$$ed ) to the dealer only to find out there are none in stock would be two week turn around to order. Called 5 different shops in my general area same story none in stock not something they carry a lot of.
It was interesting however though that they all offered to have their bow tech adjust my string as needed just bring it in for a small fee of course.
Next day turn around. ( get the picture??? )

If I was to put a cost to all the run around I was put through until I finally got a Stringing Aid two weeks later it would be easily be an extra $100 plus dollars.
""" Wonder what extra accessories I could had used that money ???

That does not include all the frustration it created plus the 2 weeks I cursed Excalibur as well as the Dealer to anyone who would listen because of the BS.

Not a good way to start off with a new customer relationship.

Especially with what turned out to be a very impressive dependable piece of equipment. Even after a 1000 plus shoots and numerous hours hunting in all kinds of weather condition.

[amythntr]

We all know that guy that never reads instructions.

Actually Peter was not as much about the cost of the Stringing Aid for me it is the frustration it created especially considering it is such a essential part of owning a Excalibur.

As in my case
Discovering you need one while reading the instructions was too late. Which I suspect happens quite often.
I Left the Dealer's Shop pretty excited with my new purchase.
Drove home from Dealer to pickup gear.
Drove to a place where I could legally shoot and set up my crossbow for the first time. ( 30 kms away)
Set up shooting range ( 10 to 50 yds)
Unpack crossbow to assemble as per instruction manual only to discover just as I'm ready to take first shot ( discover Oh crap! string is into bumpers) Look it up in manual only to discover I need a special String Aid which is a must have but not included.
Tempted to shot anyway but decided was not the best choice to do so.

Packed everything up drove back ( pi$$ed ) to the dealer only to find out there are none in stock would be two week turn around to order. Called 5 different shops in my general area same story none in stock not something they carry a lot of.
It was interesting however though that they all offered to have their bow tech adjust my string as needed just bring it in for a small fee of course.
Next day turn around. ( get the picture??? )

If I was to put a cost to all the run around I was put through until I finally got a Stringing Aid two weeks later it would be easily be an extra $100 plus dollars.
""" Wonder what extra accessories I could had used that money ???

That does not include all the frustration it created plus the 2 weeks I cursed Excalibur as well as the Dealer to anyone who would listen because of the BS.

Not a good way to start off with a new customer relationship.

Especially with what turned out to be a very impressive dependable piece of equipment. Even after a 1000 plus shoots and numerous hours hunting in all kinds of weather condition.

....I wonder how many times this scenario was repeated or worse yet, the operator said, "screw it" and just fired away...potentially resulting in "warranty issues" that Peter has agreed is very costly...

....In "risk management" there is a concept, "you do not risk a lot for a little." Applying that principle, "why risk the warranty claims and upset customers (a lot) when the inclusion of a stringing rope (a little) could and most likely would eliminate significantly all of the brace height issues."

Anthony

[Rusty Gate]

Peter,

First I'd like to thank you for taking part in this discussion, it's a reflection of Excalibur's commitment to it's customer. As noted your personal preference would be for the aid to be included....obviously that's the consensus here. I don't think anyone here begrudges Excalibur making their fair share, fact of life if you run a business. The cost to add this item as a standard inclusion to your bows is definitely a corporate concern, regardless of what we perceive the cost to be. I respectfully submit that including a stringing aid with every bow will decrease your service cost's. Your end user now has the simple tool necessary to avoid the things that happen, and require warranty service, when improper brace height issues arise....the cost of limbs, S&H cost both ways, tech service time, etc., etc. If you need to add an additional cost to the package, so be it. However I'm sure a creative solution can be worked out to the benefit of all Excalibur users both present and FUTURE! Keep up the good work, and thank you for your time and consideration.

RG

[xcaliber]

Outstanding on every point.

[Excalibur Marketing Dude]

Actually Peter was not as much about the cost of the Stringing Aid for me it is the frustration it created especially considering it is such a essential part of owning a Excalibur.

Agreed. I totally understand the reasoning for including a stringing aid and as I mentioned we are discussing it for the future. The interesting point is those that understand and use our crossbows know a stringing aid is required and gladly purchase it. I guess we need to do a better job of educating both the end user and the dealers through our marketing. Including a stringing aid would obviously avoid the training and marketing and may end up to be cheaper.

The rope idea would work but I think the stringing aid is better and will last longer so if we're going to do it we should do it right.

Thanks everybody for your input. I find this to be one of the most important functions of this forum for us, a chance to communicate with the good people who purchase and use our products. Your input is valuable and helps us to continue to make the best products we can!

Thanks,

Peter

[amythntr]

....Here ye!, Hear ye! the stringing aid session of the 4th Congress is hereby brought to a close!

Thanks peter and yes it was a good spirited discussion!

Anthony

[coop]

Peter the cabelas in Allen, TX does not have one Excalibur bow that the brace height is remotely close to correct, they are smashing the reds to death by a half inch. Saturday they didn't even have a stringer in stock to upsell. SOOOO many of your bows are being shot right out of the box with this very bad brace height. You would be doing your company a favor by including one, these big box stores don't care anything about upselling your stringer and are letting people shoot your bow in store with these very bad brace setting. You should put a sticker on rail that clearly states bow not to be shot unless string is on brace mark.

[colouredchameleon]

....Here ye!, Hear ye! the stringing aid session of the 4th Congress is hereby brought to a close!

Thanks peter and yes it was a good spirited discussion!

Anthony

I will
Second the Motion

[Seafermiles]

It is Marketing's job to get as much out money out of the customer as reasonably possible. I agree the stringing aid is a necessity.
So it is manufactured for say $5, then sold for $35, a thirty dollar profit margin. If 1000 bows are sold that need a stringing aid then that counts up to $30,000 additional profit if 1000 stringing aids are sold.
They would do better for their customer if they would price the stringing aid a little more reasonable in the eyes of the customer. However their commitment is to the company first, customer second. Many times it is the accessories that drive up the profits.
Regardless of all the different opinions, Excalibur is doing a fine job of supplying the customers with a great Crossbow.

[Onetimeonly x-->]

Good read..Sorry if already stated?? May already be in print?? "package includes arrows etc..."stringing aid NOT included" would make me question the need for!!

[Boo]

It is Marketing's job to get as much out money out of the customer as reasonably possible. I agree the stringing aid is a necessity.
So it is manufactured for say $5, then sold for $35, a thirty dollar profit margin. If 1000 bows are sold that need a stringing aid then that counts up to $30,000 additional profit if 1000 stringing aids are sold.
They would do better for their customer if they would price the stringing aid a little more reasonable in the eyes of the customer. However their commitment is to the company first, customer second. Many times it is the accessories that drive up the profits.
Regardless of all the different opinions, Excalibur is doing a fine job of supplying the customers with a great Crossbow.

Well said!

[colouredchameleon]

So it is manufactured for say $5, then sold for $35, a thirty dollar profit margin. If 1000 bows are sold that need a stringing aid then that counts up to $30,000 additional profit if 1000 stringing aids are sold.
.

You forgot to factor in Canada's Corporate Tax Rate
Afraid there may not be much profit left over after all

[Excalibur Marketing Dude]

cabelas Allen, TX does not have one Excalibur bow that the brace height is remotely close to correct, they are smashing the reds to death by a half inch.

Yup, I have seen that myself and it drives me nuts. And its not just the big box stores guilty of this. One thing we have done is to shorten the string slightly and put more twists in the string and we are seeing less of this. We also work hard at training all the store staff to better understand the importance of brace height. It's work in progress

[Tom]

We all know that guy that never reads instructions.

Actually Peter was not as much about the cost of the Stringing Aid for me it is the frustration it created especially considering it is such a essential part of owning a Excalibur.

As in my case
Discovering you need one while reading the instructions was too late. Which I suspect happens quite often.
I Left the Dealer's Shop pretty excited with my new purchase.
Drove home from Dealer to pickup gear.
Drove to a place where I could legally shoot and set up my crossbow for the first time. ( 30 kms away)
Set up shooting range ( 10 to 50 yds)
Unpack crossbow to assemble as per instruction manual only to discover just as I'm ready to take first shot ( discover Oh crap! string is into bumpers) Look it up in manual only to discover I need a special String Aid which is a must have but not included.
Tempted to shot anyway but decided was not the best choice to do so.

Packed everything up drove back ( pi$$ed ) to the dealer only to find out there are none in stock would be two week turn around to order. Called 5 different shops in my general area same story none in stock not something they carry a lot of.
It was interesting however though that they all offered to have their bow tech adjust my string as needed just bring it in for a small fee of course.
Next day turn around. ( get the picture??? )

If I was to put a cost to all the run around I was put through until I finally got a Stringing Aid two weeks later it would be easily be an extra $100 plus dollars.
""" Wonder what extra accessories I could had used that money ???

That does not include all the frustration it created plus the 2 weeks I cursed Excalibur as well as the Dealer to anyone who would listen because of the BS.

Not a good way to start off with a new customer relationship.

Especially with what turned out to be a very impressive dependable piece of equipment. Even after a 1000 plus shoots and numerous hours hunting in all kinds of weather condition.

First of all, your bigest complaint should not be with Excalibur but with your retailer. Your statement that he would adjust the brace height for a small fee means he knows & understands it's importance. He should also be "ASHAMED" to let a bow out of his shop where it is not ready to go.

Many retailers want "acceseries" as these are usually where they can make the most money (profit). Problem is, there is only so much room (floor space) in their shop for acceseries so usually most of that space is used for the most "in demand" items.

You have a choice to shop on the internet (least interaction & cheapest), by phone (some interaction & a litle more costly) or in person at the store (larger interaction but usually cost more). Why shop at the store and pay more if they are not giving the personal experiance with knowledge. I would be telling them if that is how they treat their customers, I will shop elsewhere next time.

BTW, Excalibur is trying hard to educate people about crossbows. Why do you think they host this forum. I can remember many years ago, people would come on the forum asking "what is a crossbow" & "what is a crossbow arrow & hunting head". Now people are asking about "FOC", "arrow spine" & " KE & fps".

A retailer will do what they want no matter what Excalibur asks them to do. It is you and me that can dictate how a dealer acts by comunicating with them when we are not happy.

Tom